Nubatama super coarse stones?

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yepimonfire

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Thinking of replacing my 220 waterstone with a 120-180 grit nubatama and a 400 grit stone, as it seems the 320 is either too coarse or not coarse enough depending on the job. I am tired of spending hours reprofiling or repairing won and damaged edges and its just overkill for a routine resharpening, how would this kind of setup fair? What 400 grit stone would make a good bridge between a nubatama 180 and a 1k norton (which is on the coarse side of medium on terms of finish, not a serviceable edge)?
 
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The recommended set of Nubatamas (for a while) was the Bamboo 150, followed by the 1k Ume, and then the 5k Bamboo. I have that set actually. Surprisingly enough, the Ume 1k seems to erase the scratches from the 150 very quickly. It's sort of amazing actually. I've never tried any other water stone with the 150, and frankly I'm really bad at waterstones still.

Jason B has more waterstones than you can fit in a carry on suitcase, and I know he's got several Nubatamas, so maybe he can comment about other stones to follow the 150. But I can predict what he's going to say: Don't mix systems, and really, don't even mix brands of waterstones. Use Nubatamas together. At least that's my guess of advice from the master.

Brian.
 
The Nubatama series of stones is a bit complex and one should really seek advice before making any decisions. If you are looking at the Black 180 grit Bamboo stone I would advise against it, it's a very nice stone that has great grinding feel but it favors German stainless and softer steels in general, plus it tends to wear quickly (though thats kinda common with coarse stones).

The 150 bamboo is kinda the go-to stone in the Nubatama line, it's fast, slower wearing than most, and less muddy. The muddy nature of coarse japanese Waterstones is fine if you are sharpening traditional Japanese blades but for most standard bevels the thick mud rides up the side and washes out the shoulder. It's much better with the 150 Bamboo but can still occur.

In the end, stones below 300 grit are less practical than diamond plates for general sharpening. Now, if you are sharpening knives like this single bevel below then I can understand the need but for everything else the cheap 120-150 grit plates followed by a 300-500 grit waterstone is a much better progression of stones.

D90041DD-25E7-491A-8E0B-3277644EE3C7.jpg

As Brian said, I would recommend a set of stones in most cases. It's not exactly easy to mix stones and end up with something that works. Some combos I would recommend on the coarse end prior to 1k,

Atoma 140, 400

Atoma 140/DMT XXC, Shapton Pro 320

Atoma140/DMT XXC, Shapton Glass 500

Atoma 140/DMT XXC, Nubatama Ume 320

Atoma 140/ DMT XXC, Naniwa Professional 400

I recommend quality Diamond plates for use as lapping tools - I recommend cheap plates for bevel setting duity because you tend to wear out the plates using them for double duity. At least I do.
 
Jason B. said:
The Nubatama series of stones is a bit complex and one should really seek advice before making any decisions. If you are looking at the Black 180 grit Bamboo stone I would advise against it, it's a very nice stone that has great grinding feel but it favors German stainless and softer steels in general, plus it tends to wear quickly (though thats kinda common with coarse stones).

The 150 bamboo is kinda the go-to stone in the Nubatama line, it's fast, slower wearing than most, and less muddy. The muddy nature of coarse japanese Waterstones is fine if you are sharpening traditional Japanese blades but for most standard bevels the thick mud rides up the side and washes out the shoulder. It's much better with the 150 Bamboo but can still occur.

In the end, stones below 300 grit are less practical than diamond plates for general sharpening. Now, if you are sharpening knives like this single bevel below then I can understand the need but for everything else the cheap 120-150 grit plates followed by a 300-500 grit waterstone is a much better progression of stones.

View attachment 545811

As Brian said, I would recommend a set of stones in most cases. It's not exactly easy to mix stones and end up with something that works. Some combos I would recommend on the coarse end prior to 1k,

Atoma 140, 400

Atoma 140/DMT XXC, Shapton Pro 320

Atoma140/DMT XXC, Shapton Glass 500

Atoma 140/DMT XXC, Nubatama Ume 320

Atoma 140/ DMT XXC, Naniwa Professional 400

I recommend quality Diamond plates for use as lapping tools - I recommend cheap plates for bevel setting duity because you tend to wear out the plates using them for double duity. At least I do.
Click to expand...

I really wanted to us waterstones simply because I have so knives with recuves an th corners can be shaped round to accommodate them. I have been sharpening all of my double bevel knives on a norton that kick up a ton of mud with no complaint however I'd really rather not replace the Norton because it's just not thick enough or a high wear stone. I've nearly washed the whole thing down the sink in a year's time.

Do you have any one suggestions? The stone I need will so the have to be round itself or be easily shapeable like a waterstone.
 
The Ume 220 Would probably me my recommendation if you wanted to add just one stone. I would say 150 bamboo if you wanted to change up your 1k, otherwise you would need something in the 400-600 range.
 
How fast would you say the ume is in comparison to the Norton? For comparison If you've never used the Norton, I know the Norton 220 is about 2x faster then a coarse India stone on comparable jobs.
 
Hard to say, waterstones with different wear rates will have different cuttng speeds all else being equal. It's very hard to get the cutting power of a soft stone from a hard stone due to how waterstones work. It's like blade steels, if you want one feature be prepared to give up something else.

With the performance levels of the stones we are discussing I'm fairly sure it's a good step up from your Nortons.
 
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