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NY Knife Law Case: recent good news?
- Thread starter CrayZ
- Start date
People V Trowells
http://nylawyer.nylj.com/adgifs/decisions14/072414webber.pdf
Simply put, a person arrested for a folding knife had the charges against him dismissed in the interest of justice. This in no way changes the law itself, but rather is simply evidence that more judges lately do not necessarily feel the law is just as it is written. The decision text also gives an implied finger wag at law enforcement for making stops without legitimate cause and using knife charges as an excuse when a suspect won't fall for their verbal trap.
http://nylawyer.nylj.com/adgifs/decisions14/072414webber.pdf
Simply put, a person arrested for a folding knife had the charges against him dismissed in the interest of justice. This in no way changes the law itself, but rather is simply evidence that more judges lately do not necessarily feel the law is just as it is written. The decision text also gives an implied finger wag at law enforcement for making stops without legitimate cause and using knife charges as an excuse when a suspect won't fall for their verbal trap.
According to this decision the law says that to be charged you must have the intent to use the gravity knife unlawfully.
The police were jamming people up just for fun even though they had no intention of unlawful use.
I look forward to more discussion of this.
It seems like lawful use or totally concealed will now be ok.
This is great news as far as I can tell.
CrayZ the law does NOT state intent is needed at this point in time. It is a proposed change to the law. Intent is needed in regards to possession of dangerous knives, and a few other types, but possession is also proof of intent if you read the entire law. This case is of course a good one to see decided this way. We must remember this would be a hard sell as a banner case, as the defendant is a felon and had several other minor convictions many of which most likely were felony arrests that were plead down to lesser convictions. There was a question of 4 th Amendment rights reviewed and other factors that caused the judge to make this call. I do greatly thank the judge for noting the issues of what is a gravity knife, and how they are openly sold. I was unaware of the proposed changes to the law that seem to have made it to some part of the NYS legislature, It would be nice to see the definition changed, but one of the changes proposed an affirmative defense, which does not prevent you from getting arrested, but only offers an acceptable defense for your action at trial. Not a great solution to me.
Last edited:
Critter
Platinum Member
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The following was posted in the Main forum so as many folks might see it as possible and perhaps prevent misunderstandings and arrests. Some Moderator moved it to the Becker Forum! http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...arge-WARNING!-DOESN-T-CHANGE-ANYTHING-for-Now No f*ing idea who thought that was a good idea. Trying to get that fixed, but in the meantime:
In a remarkably commonsense decision, a New York court has set aside a Gravity Knife prosecution "in the interest of justice." You can read the decision here: http://nylawyer.nylj.com/adgifs/decisions14/072414webber.pdf This decision is getting a lot of attention, which is good however... WARNING! Residents of New York City and those traveling there should NOT take this as meaning that they can now carry any folding knife they want (see more below).
This is a positive outcome for a number of reasons, but most importantly because, while it unfortunately affirms the so-called "wrist flick test" as a means of identifying a Gravity Knife in New York, which we assert in our Federal Civil Rights Lawsuit as being an unconstitutionally vague test, it recognizes that a great many people carry and use such knives for lawful purposes, both throughout the U.S. as well as in New York. Further, the court acknowledged that the law has been criticized for its harsh impact on the law abiding citizen and specifically cites the case of Knife Rights' plaintiff John Copeland as one example. The court then goes on to note that the legislature has made several attempts to try and ameliorate the harsh nature of the law by making intent to use for a criminal purpose an element of the offense, rather than mere possession. Finally, the court found that the fact that the defendant had no criminal intent was, in part, a basis for dismissing his indictment, "in the interest of justice."
WARNING! Residents of New York City and those traveling there should NOT take this as meaning that they can now carry any folding knife they want that is otherwise carried in compliance with NYC rules (under 4-inches and carried concealed). In New York the "Supreme Court" is something of a misnomer and this is not an appeals level court. We have no expectation that the New York City Police Department or District Attorney Cyrus Vance, Jr, will suddenly stop arresting and prosecuting anyone who they can allege to have a gravity knife based on the "wrist flick test." We continue to provide the same cautions for NYC knife carriers that we have given for some time:
In a remarkably commonsense decision, a New York court has set aside a Gravity Knife prosecution "in the interest of justice." You can read the decision here: http://nylawyer.nylj.com/adgifs/decisions14/072414webber.pdf This decision is getting a lot of attention, which is good however... WARNING! Residents of New York City and those traveling there should NOT take this as meaning that they can now carry any folding knife they want (see more below).
This is a positive outcome for a number of reasons, but most importantly because, while it unfortunately affirms the so-called "wrist flick test" as a means of identifying a Gravity Knife in New York, which we assert in our Federal Civil Rights Lawsuit as being an unconstitutionally vague test, it recognizes that a great many people carry and use such knives for lawful purposes, both throughout the U.S. as well as in New York. Further, the court acknowledged that the law has been criticized for its harsh impact on the law abiding citizen and specifically cites the case of Knife Rights' plaintiff John Copeland as one example. The court then goes on to note that the legislature has made several attempts to try and ameliorate the harsh nature of the law by making intent to use for a criminal purpose an element of the offense, rather than mere possession. Finally, the court found that the fact that the defendant had no criminal intent was, in part, a basis for dismissing his indictment, "in the interest of justice."
WARNING! Residents of New York City and those traveling there should NOT take this as meaning that they can now carry any folding knife they want that is otherwise carried in compliance with NYC rules (under 4-inches and carried concealed). In New York the "Supreme Court" is something of a misnomer and this is not an appeals level court. We have no expectation that the New York City Police Department or District Attorney Cyrus Vance, Jr, will suddenly stop arresting and prosecuting anyone who they can allege to have a gravity knife based on the "wrist flick test." We continue to provide the same cautions for NYC knife carriers that we have given for some time:
Note that New York City administrative code has an under-4-inch length limit and requires knives be carried concealed. Knife Rights recommends that you never carry your knife clipped to your pocket in New York City. Even when covered by a jacket, simply moving the jacket aside to get to a wallet has been enough to get folks arrested. Always ensure your knife is completely concealed at all times, including not "printing" on the outside of your clothing. In addition, be extremely circumspect about using a knife for any purpose in a public setting.
Note also that NYC has interpreted the state law against gravity knives such that if an officer can "wrist flick" the knife blade open and the knife blade locks open, that knife is an illegal gravity knife. NYC takes this position even if it requires multiple tries and use of exaggerated arm thrust or motion. Using this interpretation, most any lockblade knife might be deemed an illegal gravity knife.
Note also that NYC has interpreted the state law against gravity knives such that if an officer can "wrist flick" the knife blade open and the knife blade locks open, that knife is an illegal gravity knife. NYC takes this position even if it requires multiple tries and use of exaggerated arm thrust or motion. Using this interpretation, most any lockblade knife might be deemed an illegal gravity knife.
Actually, The Moderator log shows no action by
Your thread in the BK&T forum is now moved to general knife discussion.
I did PM Kevin. In any case, thanks for moving it. Appreciate the help.