NY state knife law pls help

sharp_edge · Sep 12, 2015

the law says non usa citizens are prohibitted from owning knives. I wonder how they advice those ny non-citizens to prep food at home. what am I missing?

RevDevil · Sep 12, 2015

You might want to read up in this section, it's specifically for Knife Laws. General Knife Discussion if for discussing knives themselves. Another thing, become a member of Kniferights, possibly contact a lawyer. Just keep the politics out of the discussion.

ichor · Sep 12, 2015

Relax. Realistically, I seriously doubt that anyone is going to arrest, let alone prosecute, you for owning a chef knife, or any other kitchen knife.

sharp_edge · Sep 12, 2015

thx for replying and yes I agree to what you said. however, we are talking about SERIOUS laws so my question still stands: what is the correct way to read and interpret the law? any further explanation is appreciated.

bleedingfinger · Sep 13, 2015

i lived in erie/niagara /cataraguas countys in ny n carried what i want..if your talkin NYC i would treat it like london...im in nevada now...pretty friendly

tom19176 · Sep 13, 2015

The part you are concerned about is the following: " possesses any dangerous or deadly weapon and is not a citizen of the United States ". Most people would not consider a kitchen knife as a deadly or dangerous knife under normal conditions of its use. Buying it from a store and taking it home for use within your home should be fine. Of course you can ask the local DA in the area you live in for an actual understanding of their view of the law....

HeavyHanded · Sep 14, 2015

I agree, contact the local DA for clarification.

This law was recently challenged as a violation of the 14th and the case dismissed in an incident involving a shotgun. I cannot imagine a different outcome if an otherwise legal knife were involved.

http://law.justia.com/cases/new-york/other-courts/2011/2011-21034.html

People v Bounasri

tom19176 · Sep 14, 2015

Heavy Handed thanks for the link. Interesting view of the law.

glistam · Sep 14, 2015

HeavyHanded said:
I agree, contact the local DA for clarification.

This law was recently challenged as a violation of the 14th and the case dismissed in an incident involving a shotgun. I cannot imagine a different outcome if an otherwise legal knife were involved.

http://law.justia.com/cases/new-york/other-courts/2011/2011-21034.html

People v Bounasri

That's a great case! Based on my own research, most weapon possession laws have there roots in prejudice and discrimination, and this only reinforces that.

sharp_edge · Sep 14, 2015

Thank you HeavyHanded! This is very interesting to read.

To tom19176 - yes, " possesses any dangerous or deadly weapon and is not a citizen of the United States " is the concerning part. I heard non-citizens (e.g., green card holders) can legally possess certain guns in NY state. Since guns are certainly deadly weapons, doesn't it mean it's contradicting with the quoted knife law here?

HeavyHanded · Sep 14, 2015

sharp_edge said:
Thank you HeavyHanded! This is very interesting to read.

To tom19176 - yes, " possesses any dangerous or deadly weapon and is not a citizen of the United States " is the concerning part. I heard non-citizens (e.g., green card holders) can legally possess certain guns in NY state. Since guns are certainly deadly weapons, doesn't it mean it's contradicting with the quoted knife law here?

You are welcome - I hadn't been aware of that language prior to your question, so a good learning experience. NY knife law is so arbitrary sounding, but outside of NYC, pocket and belt knives are ubiquitous and unlikely to ever get you into trouble of and by themself. - NY is largely rural but you'd never know that without living here or visiting Upstate.

There's a number of things wrong with this law as applies to knives - at least knives that otherwise are legal for citizens to carry. Firearms aside, it is illegal to carry any knife as a "weapon", and if carried for legitimate utility use (IE, person in possession isn't apprehended committing a crime or declaring that their knife is indeed a "weapon"), said knife is a tool and not a weapon anyway.

Whether a knife is a dangerous knife is not really settled as far as the courts go and winds up case by case. Currently it may be determined on the basis of three alternative considerations:

one, its own characteristics which show that it is primarily intended for use as a weapon (looks !!??);

second, a modification, which converts what would otherwise be a utensil into a weapon (don't sharpen a screwdriver or piece of tempered glass);

and third, the circumstances of the possession which may reveal that the possessor considers it a weapon and not a utilitarian tool (don't be heard yelling things like "I'll cut you DEEP!" or telling an officer you carry it because you get scared sometimes. If asked whether you have a weapon, the answer is no. If being patted down or taken into custody and asked if you have a weapon, the answer is still "no, but I do have a knife for utility use" or some such.

The current standard is based on overall dimensions and possessor's other circumstances - a concealed 14" blade, attempting to conceal a knife after being chased by police for threatening someone. The most troubling is a juvenile that was found to be in possession of a weapon for having a case-cutter in his pocket when arrested for pot possession. The crazy thing is if he had been carrying a small folding knife, it might have gone the other way as there had been a rash of case-cutting attacks around the time of the arrest.

On the other side, a man who had an oversize hunting knife on his belt in his home when it was raided by LE for narcotics, was found to be legal possession - not a weapon.