NYC Knife Laws: Specific laws for traveling to a camping or hiking destination.

[Kebk]

Hi, I am a avid hiker and camper and now I live in NYC. I often leave the city to go on adventures. I am trying t o figure out the nyc knife laws on what I can carry out of the city into the wilderness,

For the type of camping I do I don't need anything over 4 inches. I don't mind keeping it in my backpack until I am in the outback. So far I have been able to find advice on what people think I can get away with but what I want to know what is strictly legal.

I would prefer if possible to carry a gravity knife or an assisted opener like my Kreshaw leek.

I saw there was some provision for licensed hunters, fisherman, or trappers.. but I won't be doing any of that.

I also read there was some provision for people about to leave on camping trips (ill have tents and hiking poles and other gear so it will be obvious). But does that exception count for gravity knives and/or assisted opening knives? I guess I could get a 4" straight knife but that is less convenient for me.

Can anyone point me to the definitive law?

On another note: there is a police procedure here called "stop and frisk" where police can stop people for no reason at all and empty their bags on the hood and search peoples pockets.

 

[glistam]

Any question about NY and NYC is going to tricky to answer. This is a lot of interconnected laws that are not laid out very logically. I shall do my best.

Keep in mind that when in NYC, you most follow State and City law simultaneously. When not in NYC, just State law applies as well as any county or city knife law in that area, though I have yet to hear of any especially upstate.

Both state and NYC laws can be found here: http://public.leginfo.state.ny.us/menuf.cgi
This is the official published law on a government website, not some third-party outdated junk site. The site prevents linking directly so I will have to paste statutes as necessary. To find any law, click Laws of New York, then "PEN Penal " for state criminal statutes or "ADC New York City Administrative Code" for City.

NYC knife law is covered under the New York City Administrative Code § 10-133.

b. It shall be unlawful for any person to carry on his or her person or have in such person's possession, in any public place, street, or park any knife which has a blade length of four inches or more.
c. It shall be unlawful for any person in a public place, street or park, to wear outside of his or her clothing or carry in open view any knife with an exposed or unexposed blade unless such person is actually using such knife for a lawful purpose as set forth in subdivision d of this section.
d. The provisions of subdivisions b and c of this section shall not apply to

(1) persons in the military service of the state of New York when duly authorized to carry or display knives pursuant to regulations issued by the chief of staff to the governor;​

(2) police officers and peace officers as defined in the criminal procedure law;​

(3) participants in special events when authorized by the police commissioner;​

(4) persons in the military or other service of the United States, in pursuit of official duty authorized by federal law;​

(5) emergency medical technicians or voluntary or paid ambulance drivers while engaged in the performance of their duties; or​

(6) any person displaying or in possession of a knife otherwise in violation of this section when such knife​

(a) is being used for or transported immediately to or from a place where it is used for hunting, fishing, camping, hiking, picnicking or any employment, trade or occupation customarily requiring the use of such knife; or​

(b) is displayed or carried by a member of a theatrical group, drill team, military or para-military unit or veterans organization, to, from, or during a meeting, parade or other performance or practice for such event, which customarily requires the carrying of such knife; or​

(c) is being transported directly to or from a place of purchase, sharpening or repair, packaged in such a manner as not to allow easy access to such knife while it is transported; or​

(d) is displayed or carried by a duly enrolled member of the Boy or Girl Scouts of America or a similar organization or society and such display or possession is necessary to participate in the activities of such organization or society.​

Emphasis added by me. In summary, the law does allow a exception for transporting knives out of the city for camping. Keep it packed up though.

State law, which must be complied with at all times, is covered under New York Penal Code, Part 2, Title P, Article 265

Of particular interest is § 265.01:

A person is guilty of criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degree when:
1) He or she possesses any firearm, electronic dart gun, electronic stun gun, gravity knife, switchblade knife, pilum ballistic knife, metal knuckle knife, cane sword, billy, blackjack, bludgeon, plastic knuckles, metal knuckles, chuka stick, sand bag, sandclub, wrist-brace type slingshot or slungshot, shirken or "Kung Fu star"; or
(2) He possesses any dagger, dangerous knife, dirk, razor, stiletto, imitation pistol, or any other dangerous or deadly instrument or weapon with intent to use the same unlawfully against another;

Among the highlighted terms, only two are defined, under § 265.00:

4. "Switchblade knife" means any knife which has a blade which opens automatically by hand pressure applied to a button, spring or other device in the handle of the knife.
5. "Gravity knife" means any knife which has a blade which is released from the handle or sheath thereof by the force of gravity or the application of centrifugal force which, when released, is locked in place by means of a button, spring, lever or other device.

Here is where we get into the messy part. These definitions exist in many other states, but have been interpreted differently than most by the courts of NY. A true gravity knife is a German paratrooper device that falls open under the force of gravity with no arm or hand movement at all. They are largely extinct except for antiques. The courts have ruled that any folder who's blade locks open and who's pivot is sufficiently loose to grasp the knife by the blade and swing it open is a "gravity knife" under the law. The officer is permitted to repeat this motion hundreds of times until he gets the knife to do this, and the charge will still stand. This is nearly all locking folders. The switchblade definition is identical to most other states and the federal law. The federal government and other states have ruled that assisted openers do not fit this definition, but I don't know if NY has made this ruling one way or the other. Whether they have or not, most assisted-openers can still fail the "gravity knife" blade-grasping test. Strangely, though a state law, only NYC officers seem to enforce the "gravity knife" rule this way. Most other cops out in the state do not interpret or at least enforce this rule.

By the letter of the law, these knives are illegal to possess at all, much less carry, with the only practical exception outlined in 265.20:

6. Possession of a switchblade or gravity knife for use while hunting, trapping or fishing by a person carrying a valid license issued to him pursuant to section 11-0713 of the environmental conservation law.

 

[N Gremory]

(2) He possesses any dagger, dangerous knife, dirk, razor, stiletto, imitation pistol, or any other dangerous or deadly instrument or weapon with intent to use the same unlawfully against another;

That's quite a concern, there. Not being defined, it's quite a terrifying term.

Example from New York, Matter of Jamie D., 59 NY2d 589 (1983)

Whether a "knife" is a "dangerous" knife may be determined on the basis of three alternative considerations: one, its own characteristics which show that it is primarily intended for use as a weapon; second, a modification, which converts what would otherwise be a utensil into a weapon; and third, the circumstances of the possession which may reveal that the possessor considers it a weapon and not a utilitarian tool.

Fancy 'tactical' designs would make for a difficult defending argument against an officer.
Tanto blades, long blades, blued blades, 'painted' blades, black or camouflage handles, 'scary designs', etc.

As far as your particular knife and situation.. You should be fine. The Leek should be relatively easy to defend against being called a 'dangerous knife,' anyway. It's not very long, it has a blade ideal for slicing things such as foods, and it has a very sleek, non-aggressive design, imo. If you have a black-bladed version, you're free to explain that it's good for protecting it against rust.

 

[glistam]

Very true N Gremory, I have heard of this problem too. However, that particular subdivision contains the key phrase "with intent to use the same unlawfully against another" Jamie D was a teenage miscreant who was trying to carry out an armed robbery and threatened a person who tried to intervene. While some claim that the intent is presumed, to date I have not found a case supporting this.

 

[tom19176]

The Dangerous knife charge is very open to include almost any knife, but it is rarely used as there are too many conditions that come into play. The biggest concern with locking folders in NYC ( and some what NYS in general) is the widely used charge of a gravity knife. Most officers will consider the totality of the situation, but those chasing arrests numbers for their own personal reasons, often don't care if the case is dismissed at some point due to the questionable application of the law. A few years back the DA in Brooklyn made a form for officers to fill out stating how they determined a knife to be a gravity knife. There are many times the DA will not see things the way an officer does, but that does not stop them from arresting you, and causing you a lot of grief. The fact that you can be charged with a blade flicked open by holding the blade and flicking the handle open does occur, but it is not accepted by most officers and few judges and DAs, unless the design of the knife allows for fast access to a useable position of the knife ( think Spyderco co and the Spidy drop)....