O.T. an interesting Philippine Kris (big pics)

ferguson

ferguson

Joined
Feb 21, 2001
Messages
4,238
Hello all,
I found this nice kris in need of a handle wrap listed on Ebay as "VINTAGE SWORD, BAYONET, MEDIEVAL ??,UNUSUAL". From what I have learned , I'm guessing a Philippine Moro Kris. The hilt is buffalo horn, wrapped with cord (and some old timey electrical friction tape). Baca is steel, with a brass strip going under the handle wrap on the underside of the hilt. Overall length is 26". I did a quick and dirty polish and etch with 50/50 FeCl. I wiped the etchant on with a paper towel and the steel on the edges went immediately dark. Further rubbing showed a nice pattern (pamor?) in the center. Wow, was I surprised! The guys over at the EEWRS thought it might be a 19th century blade, rehilted mid 20th century. Here are some pics. Hope you enjoy them.
Thanks!
Steve
kris1overall.jpg

krispommel.jpg

krishilt.jpg

krispattern.jpg

krispattern2.jpg
 
Beautiful, Steve.

A word of caution, though: next time blur the handle a little. You KNOW how Bruise is about 19th century electrical tape.
 
Now, how could someone think that was a bayonet?!

That thing has a SOUL. Do you think the pattern is from forge welding? I read that those were made with meteoric iron and files thrown in, and that the sides could be as sharp as the edges, "five sharps" if I remember right.

Anyways, a great find!
 
Yes, the pattern is from forging. The dark edges are high carbon steel to hold a good edge. The center is a mix of iron and steel. Cool huh?

Steve
 
ferguson said:
Yes, the pattern is from forging. The dark edges are high carbon steel to hold a good edge. The center is a mix of iron and steel. Cool huh?

Steve
Click to expand...
Steve from the center's appearance I'd almost bet my bottom dollar that there's nickel in the mix as well.:D
 
I think Yvsa's on to something. Most meteoric iron (found in TINY quantities) is an iron-nickel composite. The Javanese Tombax blade I have has layers of a nickel like substance between carbon steel layers. Mine is really rough in finish, as it was a devotional "ritual" weapon, thus is heavily corroded form fruit and veggie acids in the yearly rituals performed to bless house weapons.

Keith
 
nice one, steve....no big surprise here.....:D


great pattern-welded blade.

Hope Bill Marsh sees this - he might have a note or two to add.
 
Yvsa said:
Steve from the center's appearance I'd almost bet my bottom dollar that there's nickel in the mix as well.:D
Click to expand...

Yvsa my friend,
Yesterday I did a complete polish to 2000 and re-etched it. When you turn it in the light, you can see a spiderweb of shiney material in the damascus. I'm guessing that it's the nickel of which you spoke. Good call! :)

Steve
 
Well I'm no expert but looking at the picture it looks to me to be an Indonesian Kris and not Philippine. Damascus patterns in a kris is a trademark in an Indonesian Kris. Other tell-tale signs are the intricate guard carving and the threaded tang, both of which I believe are not found in a Moro Philippine Kris (but what do I know, I could be wrong). I'm not sure by the picture, but is that a ring between the hilt and the guard, because that's another Indonesian kris characteristic. Although, I didn't know an Indonesian kris was also made that long, an Indonesian kris is usually just knife length and it's in the Philippines that Moros made sword length ones.

And lastly, a bit of trivia, in Indonesia a Kris is considered also a talisman, wherein the pattern in the blade is dependent on the person who would use the knife. From what I heard depending on the time you were born there's a set pattern for the kris that would be made for you. Talk about custom made.
 
This is without a doubt a Moro/filipino Kris. The length, slaxhing emphasis and Baca Baca all give it away. They are this intricately carved, don't mistake the modern made martial arts and tourist ones for the real deal.
 
Cabbit said:
They are this intricately carved, don't mistake the modern made martial arts and tourist ones for the real deal.
Click to expand...
Yup, they can be. Mine is very intrically carved in a leaf pattern all along the blade.:D :cool: :D
I don't think carved is the correct word, chased may be better, because it looks as if it was done with a single point tool of some sort similar to a chisel.
The Baca Baca is missing from mine and the handle has been broken out around the tang. I have it temporarily glued on with hot glue which makes it secure enough to hold by the handle and to swing it somewhat not so gently, being extremely careful when doing so.:eek: ;)
The tang is in a sort of pyramid shape and is maybe 5/8" long and as wide.
I was a lot younger and a helluva lot dumber when I got the sword and foolishly removed much of the black finish it had on the blade with a wire brush mounted on a bench grinder.:rolleyes: :o
But at least that gives me the opportunity to etch it and see what may lie in what appears to be homogenous steel.
I'm almost positive that it's not nearly as nice as Steve's though.
 
Yvsa said:
But at least that gives me the opportunity to etch it and see what may lie in what appears to be homogenous steel.
I'm almost positive that it's not nearly as nice as Steve's though.
Click to expand...

You never know till you etch! :eek:

Steve
 
Since we're talking krises, and since the vikingswordforum doesn't want to let me log in after I registered, you folks can help me speculate on the origin of this freakshow:

http://www.pbase.com/coati858/inbox <<<---pics are there :confused:

Moro?-style hilt/guard with an English blade (with, I think, a King George stamp).

Wild speculation: blades first traded in China, then traded to Philippines?
 
donutsrule said:
Wild speculation: blades first traded in China, then traded to Philippines?
Click to expand...
DR I can't answer your question but I have seen these before, pisses me off that I can't remember where now but it wasn't too long ago.:rolleyes: :mad:
It was probably when I was doing some research a little while back. I should've put the website in my bookmarks.:grumpy:
Pretty neat swords anyway.
Also interesting because of the single edge versus the double edge of the Moro Sundang/Kris.:)
Evidently there may have been more than one style of fighting developed with the Moro Kris.
I bet Federico would know.:D
 
Hmmm. Well, I've seen long blades from farther north (like Visayan) which are single-edge, also I think kampilans and barongs are single-edged. :confused:
 
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