Obtaining a security clearance

A

AlphalphaPB

Joined
Apr 29, 2002
Messages
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Hi, everyone. I've been thinking about enlisting in the Army, but most of the MOS's that look enjoyable to me require a security clearance level of "Secret". My parents are naturalized citizens, and though I was born in the US, I have spent 7 out of 22 years of my life in Hong Kong. Most of my extended family lives in Hong Kong.

Will this adversely affect my chances of obtaining the security clearance? If feasible, my plan is to fly back to the US to sign up ASAP. I'm hoping for a linguist or intelligence position; apart from those kinds of positions, would an inability to get a clearance mean that I'd have a much smaller pool of MOS choices?

Now that I think about it, I wish I'd done ROTC in college. Since I have a degree, would I be better off getting some relevant experience and then signing up for OCS? At my current stage in life I feel that I would not compare well to established professionals (i.e. older candidates with more real-life experience), so that's why I'm considering enlisting.

Thanks in advance for any help you guys can give me.
 
Secret is not a high clearance. Your international life will slow the investigation a bit, I'm sure. But, assuming you're background is "clean," your clearance will be possible.

The military has a keen need for linguists, true. But people who speak a foreign language as a native and not just as a Berlitz graduate are far better than simple linguists. They realize that such knowledge doesn't come from living in Kansas. Therefore, they are quite able to deal with international background investigations for such people.

Good luck.
 
When I was in school in the 60s we were told that if you had any relatives in a communist country there was no way you could get a security clearance . But things have changed and the best thing is to ask a recruiter ,in detail about the clearance requirements.BTW, China is very active in military and industrial spying in this country !!
 
I have been through several background checks for work done on DOD and DOJ projects as a contractor (design professional). I have also been interviewed as a character witness on several checks on other design professionals.

No matter what minor transgressions you may have done in the past, be very, very honest, as the quickest way to flunk those evaluations is to provide misleading or false information. They WILL find out if you are not scrupulous. Honesty is a key component in your evaluation.
 
heh. i wanted to do army intel but they said i had some pyschological problems when i was a kid. they were full of it but what is on paper is on paper. i highly doubt they would give me top secret clearance because of it. sucks
 
If you are clean, there is no need to worry. I have a similar background. My Military clearance was done w/o any probs.
 
Architect said:
I have been through several background checks for work done on DOD and DOJ projects as a contractor (design professional). I have also been interviewed as a character witness on several checks on other design professionals.

No matter what minor transgressions you may have done in the past, be very, very honest, as the quickest way to flunk those evaluations is to provide misleading or false information. They WILL find out if you are not scrupulous. Honesty is a key component in your evaluation.
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This is the best and soundest advice that anyone can give to you. And I speak as one who has been through the mill on various occasions.
 
While I greatly respect your desire to serve, I would advise against signing up for a job requiring a Top Secret clearance if you have lived outside of the US and still have family in China. You may get the clearance... but it could take them a long, long time to investigate fully enough to grant it to you. In the meantime, you'll be stuck in limbo at some God-forsaken training base out in the middle of nowhere for months. I've seen it happen. You can almost definitely get a Secret clearance, but Top Secret requires a much more thorough investigation and having to do a large part of it overseas makes the process move even slower. If you do decide to try for an MI job, ask the recruiters and career counselors at your MEPS (Military Entrance Processing Command) station as many pointed questions as possible. The career counselors know more than the recruiters for the most part. If you don't like the answers, ask to talk to someone else. DO NOT let them push you around or convince you to do anything you don't want to do. At that stage, you hold all of the cards. Use them. Anything that you don't get in writing on your contract is not guaranteed in any way, regardless of what anyone tells you. So if you have a desire to go Airborne or anything like that, get it in your contract. If you want to be stationed in Hawaii, ask to get that in your contract as a guaranteed first duty station. If they offer a $10,000 bonus, ask for more. You might get it. If they don't want to do it, walk away or better yet go talk to one of the other services. They need you more than you need them, so keep that in mind when you're negotiating. BTW, you don't have as much leverage unless you're signing up for a high demand job like MI. Those positions are the hardest to fill. Regardless, it's always in your best interests to push for more. It's not like applying for a civilian job. As long as you meet the physical and mental requirements, they'll hire you. It doesn't matter if you tick of the guys at MEPS in the process. Good luck and feel free to e-mail me with any questions. I've been in Army MI for 3.5 years and will be glad to pass on any tips I can.
 
If you sign up for MI and when they do the top secrect background check do they compare it against your forms of enlistment and such? Would it go back against me that I didn't put on the forms that I had seen a psychatrist? I should have never listened to my recruiter when I was doing the paper work before going to MEPS.
 
Don't worry about the MOS requiring a "secret" (red badge) clearance. If you operate a radio in a squad, you're required to get a secret clearance. It's the "top secret" (yellow badge) clearance that should be harder to obtain. ;)
 
Alpha,
If you want to talk it through PM me when you're back in Baltimore and I'll send you my phone number or we can link up (no, I'm not a recruiter). I'm a local call for you from there and I should be able to shed some light on things for you.

Hard to cover all the options via email.
 
ssblood said:
Would it go back against me that I didn't put on the forms that I had seen a psychatrist? I should have never listened to my recruiter when I was doing the paper work before going to MEPS.
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Yes and yes. The worst thing you can do is act like you're hiding something. Even if it's inoccuous, it's going to raise a red flag.
 
Not the security clearance forms but the forms for MEPS. Should I even bother trying to go MI at this point?
 
If you sign up for MI and when they do the top secrect background check do they compare it against your forms of enlistment and such?
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Yes, that would be standard procedure.

Would it go back against me that I didn't put on the forms that I had seen a psychatrist? I should have never listened to my recruiter when I was doing the paper work before going to MEPS.
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It will raise a red flag. But, seeing a psychiatrist does not necessarily disqualify.

Two questions come up: First, what was the deal with the psych? How was it resolved, etc. And, second, why wasn't it on your initial paperwork?

The correct answer to both is honesty. Tell 'em everything about the psych. They'll decide if it matters. And tell 'em that your recruiter recommended that you neglect to list it and that you now regret following his advice.

It's a perception that you have to have a squeaky clean background to get a security clearance. That's not true. What they're looking for is

A) Trustworthiness. Obviously, they are going to trust you with sensitive information. They want you to be trustworthy. Trustworthy doesn't mean squeaky clean.

B) Honestly. They need you to honest about things that are important and matter.

C) Loyalty to your country.

When I worked in the military/industrial complex, I had to have a clearance. One of the standard questions is, "Have you ever used any illegal drugs or substances?" In all honesty, I answered no. My squeaky-clean No answer was actually a red-flag. They assume that in this day and age, everyone has at least a time or two, so the issue was not squeakiness but honesty. I know that when they interviewed my family, friends, etc., that they focused on that issue trying to find someone who would say that they knew of me using some illegal drug or something. They were not checking the squeakiness, but the honestly.

Years later, I briefly took another job back in the military/industrial complex and they started the process of re-instating my nearly expired clearance. Again, I faced the standard interview and that illegal drugs/substances question. This time, with great joy I answered YES! in fact I'd even manufactured illegal substances. The interviewer was visibily pleased with my honest answer and then asked what, where, when? I answered by explaining my experiences drinking and even making moonshine whiskey. The interviewer was crestfallen because moonshine doesn't count as far as they're concerned. And I thought that being a moonshiner was pretty exotic. Oh well.

I've known some pretty crazy folks with high security clearances. We had one engineer who was paraplegic but literally refused to believe that he was paraplegic (and I am talking certifiable here, sick in the head).

We had another guy who was a brilliant genuine genius, a person truly operating on a mental plane much much higher than just about anyone else. But, he was also quite crazy and also quite unable to separate work from the rest of his life. His life was his work and his work was his life and the idea that there should be any separation between them was inconceivable. After several episodes, the army finally determined that the only solution was for him to live on an army base under supervision. So, a suitable house was built for him and his household was moved. Initially, a moving van company was contracted. But, within hours they were dismissed and the army took over the move. By the time it was over, there were haz. mat. and explosive ordinance teams assisting in the move, his neighborhood was evacuated as a precaution, and they ended up taking his house apart piece by piece, even breaking up the foundation, and hauling all of it away leaving a hole in the ground where a house once stood. And nobody has heard from him again.

One of our engineers with a very high-level clearance just disappeared. The FBI, the NSA, DISCO, were all trying to find him for weeks. There was a national manhunt. And all the while we were getting e-mails from him. He'd just got on his motorcycle and went on walk-about for a few weeks. His motorcycle, by the way, was a 25th Aniversary Honda Goldwing one of like 50 made, and very, very distinctive and yet the country's top detectives were unable to find him.

Years later, when I was living in a completely different town, I happened by the auto parts store one day and as I walked in I spotted a very distinctive Honda Goldwing with Kansas plates parked by the door. My suspecions were realized when I ran into my old friend in the store. We instantly recognized each other. He asked if he could use my shower and ended up spending the night in my apartment. I asked him if he was on walk-about again and he said, "Yes. Don't tell anyone." And off he rode.

And these are the people in whom are entrusted some of the nation's greatest secrets.

So, there is no requirement that you be little Mr. Prefect.
 
That's all good news then. One more question, will they go back to MEPS and will the Army end up getting me for fradulant enlistement? My recruiter had me completely under the impression that anything psychological would get me denied etc.
 
Try sending an email to "82paratrooper". He's a forum member. He served in a Military Intelligence Battalion at FT. Bragg. He could also answer some of your questions.
 
All officers have Secret clearances. It isn't a difficult clearance to obtain, but the investigation may take some time.

Go for it, man!

Gollnick said:
It will raise a red flag. But, seeing a psychiatrist does not necessarily disqualify.
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Yeah, it depends on what you went for. I saw one when I was very young, for family problems, and as far as I know it isn't a problem. They're more concerned with instability and mental illness.
 
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