Ode to the Kunai

DannyinJapan

DannyinJapan

Joined
Oct 9, 2003
Messages
5,594
My old favorite "whatchamacallit" somehow recently became an object of thought in my newly cored out and irradiated mind, so I thought I'd ramble on for a bit about this misunderstood "bastard" of the wide, weird world of metal implements from around the world.
The first thing I think I should say is that, in the old days, and the kunai is OLD, is that people DID NOT waste STEEL on tools unless they were really, really important. Steel used to be very rare and precious and expensive. IRON was used for almost everything.
That is one of the reasons so many antique weapons from various places are nothing but a handful of rust in museums. Iron doesn't last like steel.
Anyhow, a kunai was just a "multitool." You know, the kind of thing you grab when a BAD rattlesnake jumps at your kid out of a bail of hay in the barn? Who cares what you smack it with? You just grab something and smack it. That is all a kunai ever was.
The reason we know about them, I suppose, is that some people in Japan decided to study the various "professional" uses of such a ”useless” hunk of iron and passed it down through their martial arts schools over hundreds of years.

90% of all kunai I have ever seen were 12" to 16" long, leaf-bladed, unsharpened except for the last 3" with a round grip. We presume the "blades" were just hammer-forged from a round bar of iron and the grip was left rounded or slightly flattened and wrapped with twine for grip. The pommel often had a ring for a cord. They were sometimes used as pitons or as anchors for trip cords.

Here is the kanji (japanese character for kunai 苦無) if you'd like to search for images. Please ignore the diamond-shaped naruto kunai. I have never seen a real one like that, however, as my teacher once told me, "if you can imagine it, a soldier (or someone in danger) has tried it."

I have tried to get a kunai from the kamiｓ, but I haven't had any luck in the past. Maybe Iron is too hard to get in Nepal? Steel is the new iron...

They were not throwing weapons, although they can be thrown. They are not knives, but they might be considered knife-shaped clubs. Their edges could rip or tear skin because of the many nicks and damage from being used to whack rocks or whatever.
The use of the kunai in combat is unlimited, which is what made it useful. No rules, just stay alive. If the untempered, unsharpened aspects bother you, just imagine how hard or how sharp a piece of metal needs to be to poke out your eye or tear your throat open... (not very)

c6_2.jpg
 
i never knew Kunai got that big! I've always known them to be the small, diamond shaped throwing weapons, seen used mostly by ninjas. Interesting post! :thumbup: Kunais are a way more badass tool than I thought...and as with many other weapons, it seems their original purpose was utility, not specifically combat/SD. I want one!
 
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Wow, that is super cool. I, for one, think the kunai is awesome. I know of a site called Dragon hoshi defense that sells S-7 tool steel kunai's and Kongoshin Armory sells 5160 steel, more traditional looking ones. But I would go for neither of those two options, because, someday, I am getting one from HI. Until that wonderful day, I can only listen to stories about them, which Danny willingly provided today for all to see. Okay, I'll see you all later. Oh, did you get my visitor message, Danny? Or is this a publicized reply to it of sorts? Nice pictures by the by, they look awesome. Peace.
 
Interesting item. Did you bring any back from Japan? Are they still made?

- Christian
 
I did bring back a few from Japan, unfortunately they were made of steel, so the balance is wrong and they are not authentic. People want hardened steel and hamon on everything! That's just not how they were made and if you did have such a tool made and used it properly, you'd be crying your eyes out soon. Would would use an expensive, differentially-tempered weapon to smash the mortar out from between bricks in a wall? That's kunai-work. (Gorog, I sent a private reply as well)
I did eventually get an authentic one made from a blacksmith here in the USA, but it took a LOT of convincing to keep him from making a dagger- like object out of steel. Knifemakers just dont seem want to make these things.
They can be very small, from 6" long up to two feet long and 6 inches wide. Variation in Japanese weapons resembles variation in the insect world.
 
So true, variation is part of being human. Oh, uh, Danny? I did not get your private reply, if you feel up to it, send it again to my email address, and I'll get it that way, since there was an apparent malfunction in Bladeforums PM'ing. Okay? I'll see you all later. Peace.
 
These sound like something VERY OLD, going back to local fighting before real armor. But your picture shows a design so classic, it could work in Graeco-Roman times and modern times. It does look a lot like a smatchet.
 
Are iron and steel really that different in weight that using the latter material would change the balance? Or is the difference in balance just an issue of a different interpretation?
 
I can see the use for a heavy EDC piece of steel. Actually, Danny sent me some Bo Shuriken on a trade a year or two back. After a time, I found that having a short piece or pointy steel came in handy as an every day tool more so than a throwing weapon. I carry one in a simple leather holster in my back pocket. Of course, if can be used as a self defense item, but more often that not it earns its keep as a hole poker, a candy wrapper opener, and a prying tool. I don't worry about hurting it because it's just a four-sided piece of 6" steel with a point. There is nothing special about it besides I got it from a friend:)

The most basic of a basic multi-tool:)
 
opening candy...lol. I love it. THAT'S utilitarian. I have found that iron and steel DO differ enough in use that it makes a difference to me in what I would pay for. Especially shuriken. (slightly different subject) but when you can only carry something so long and so thick and the weight difference FEELS huge, then it has an effect on how well you use it. I'm sure the engineers in the forum can tell you the exact mathematical difference in weight and shock absorption between iron and steel, I can't, but I know how it feels. You guys know how much real Japanese swords cost and you know how it would feel to see a piece of the hardened edge go flying off after striking a rock or something too hard....The kunai was designed for striking things that were too hard for expensive tools.
General size guide - as long as your forearm (tied to it under your sleeve - secret armor) same length as your hand (tucked into your collar behind your neck)
Same length as your foot (again, you could tie one to your sole so you could walk over spikes or coals) Tricky, tricky stuff.
 
That makes sense. I was just thinking that in this day and age, it'd be easier to get an old leaf spring or railroad spike from a junkyard to make from a backyard forge than to try and fine pure iron. I think I want one now, too.
 
Not sure if the question would go here but....

If I wanted to make one out of a railroad spike, could I do the shaping by hand with a file? Or do you guys think that some other method would be called for?

I've always loved the design of these things, and finding out that they were really an old multi-tool instead of a Super Assassin Ultra Ninja Throwing Gutting Skinning Cut a Samurai in half weapon just makes it better. (The long description is sarcasm btw) :D
 
Talesin said:
Not sure if the question would go here but....

If I wanted to make one out of a railroad spike, could I do the shaping by hand with a file? Or do you guys think that some other method would be called for?

I've always loved the design of these things, and finding out that they were really an old multi-tool instead of a Super Assassin Ultra Ninja Throwing Gutting Skinning Cut a Samurai in half weapon just makes it better. (The long description is sarcasm btw) :D
Click to expand...

I have no idea what railroad spikes are made out of (I'm assuming they vary in material based on the age and location, but that's purely a guess). But if it is an iron spike, I would try forging it flatter rather than material removal. If the iron is soft enough, you might be able to get it hot enough to smash it to a blade-ish shape.
 
Steely_Gunz said:
I have no idea what railroad spikes are made out of (I'm assuming they vary in material based on the age and location, but that's purely a guess). But if it is an iron spike, I would try forging it flatter rather than material removal. If the iron is soft enough, you might be able to get it hot enough to smash it to a blade-ish shape.
Click to expand...

Railroad spikes are a soft super-low carbon steel, very easy to work with really...
 
I might try beating one of these out of rebar. I could make a little one out of 3/8" material. I have tons of that lying about. Since I don't have to get it to hold an edge, it might be an easy enough project to try. hmmmm:)
 
Yes, technically my shuriken book is "out", but I only received a few advance copies and amazon sold out in a couple of days.
There SHOULD be copies in bookstores by mid-July.
(and yes, there is a page or two on kunai in the book, but not much)
Kunai, in the Japanese traditional arts, ARE NOT throwing weapons, however anything that can be thrown is technically a throwing weapon in some of those arts, so take your grain of salt with everything I tell ya.
But then, a shurikenjutsu grandmaster more than once told me and will tell you too, - Do not throw your weapons away. (A bird in the hand can draw blood much longer than two in the bush.~ my summation~ He wanted me to use them close range in the hand and throw them only as a last resort. Cause once you throw it, it's G-O-N-E gone.)
That's part of the "mystique" that gets people, including me at one time - The DESIRE to throw can overcome the common sense necessary for actual survival. Good teachers have to work very hard to overcome the self-destructive desires of their own students, it seems, and I have been no exception.

If anything, the kunai has helped me see the changes in life over time since it was the EDC tool de choix in Japan for "certain types."
When I began to make my yoroi, I hit this same wall. One looks at Japanese armor, one assumes one is looking at a metal that is sufficiently hard enough to stop a thrust or cut from a hardened steel sword. It is not, nor was it designed to do so.
Japanese armor was thin iron plate (teppan) covered with paint. It absorbed and deflected. They just couldn't afford steel for some things. It is my understanding that, at one point during the old days, differentially hardened swords were banned or outlawed in Europe because of their manufacturing expense as well. (maybe somebody can verify that?)

If I were to make a kunai, I'd go with a piece of smooth iron or rebar about 16" long and flatten out the last 12" into a leaf-shape. Have a good look at the photo above to see how unsharpened the lower edge is. Kunai were often held by the blade, so if you wanna keep your fingers, don't worry about making it too dagger-ish.

PS I love talking about this stuff, thanks for giving me the chance.
 
thanks Danny. have you ever seen the youtuber scottbaioisdead? he talks a lot about this just wondering what your thoughts are of him? oh haha! he just posted your book on youtube how funny! small world!
 
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