Off To the Rifle Range

M

mwerner

Joined
Apr 23, 2002
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After conducting our classroom training for the new "patrol rifles", we went to the range for the first time yesterday.

As I mentioned before, we're issuing an M4-type weapon made by Rock River Arms:
http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_ID=199

These are set up with the two-position aperture sight and the EOTech 552 Holographic optical sights.
Sling, of course. Two 30-round magazines with each gun, one with SP ammunition and one with the "frangible" round for different conditions.

No bayonet or grenade launcher.....:D

It's been a long time since I had a long gun in my hands. I occasionally haul my ancient Remington 870 to the range and pop off a few rounds to see if it still works. (it always does)

First impression; I can't see. At 61, a bifocal wearer, and likely in need of a new prescription, my view of the iron sights was seriously bad. Our first task was to zero the weapons with the iron sights, and then align the optical sight to the same zero.
Nonetheless, I was able to fire decent groups by taking my time and hitting an average between the two front-sight posts I was seeing. (I am not kidding).
Then, on to the optical sight. Ahh....A gift for aging eyes. Precision returned. The old rifle-shooting disciplines are still lurking in my muscle-memory somewhere!

Weapons zeroed, we went to more practical shooting (this was a 5-hour session) Prone, kneeling, and standing.
Prone is interesting with bifocals.... Still, I spent many hours as a youth doing this, and no problems. Kneeling...Seriously hurts. I could do it, but my arthritic and much-damaged knees protested mightily.
Standing...Used to be my favorite position. I recall shooting 300 yard silhouettes reliably with my M14 from the offhand position. Maybe not anymore....I'd have trouble SEEING a 300 yard silhouette without a sniper rig.... Still, a credible performance.

Then, clearing drills with dummy cartridges inserted into the magazine.

Finally, our qualifying round, and a spate of recreational rapid fire "point-shooting" at close range. This I can do; the old man was quickest off the line consistently.
I hope we'll be able to do enough shooting to polish up these initial sessions, as many of our guys have no long-arm experience whatever.

I'm a bit sore this morning......:D
 
This is for/in aid of? Hunting squirrels? Don't mean to sound rude but this is confusing?




Can I join? I just love that rifle, options for a chrome barrel. Glad you could enjoy using it.
 
61, can't see, arthritis... "issued" a rifle?

I'm really confused too...

The Gray Panthers?
AARP_photo_gallery_19.jpg
 
Sorry, thought most everyone on the forum knew I'm in law enforcement. As is the case with many departments around the country, we're getting "patrol rifles".
This is a trend that has been sort-of ongoing, but went into overdrive after the big East LA bank robbery/shootout.
We had a rather long thread on the subject some months ago.
 
Any time you see the term "patrol rifle," assume a cop or a cop trainer is talking. They're the only people who use that term.
 
Nice to know you are getting the right kit. Nope I hadn't a clue and was wondering who your benefactors were. Patrol in our lingo is mainly wildlife (animal not human) and starts at .308.

Our squirrels are of and Ancient African Warrior breed and not North American Ninja. Squirrel guns have only polymer stocks as walnut is susceptible to squirrel attack. So in operation red mist we use 303s and still get to keep their tails. Poodle tails don't make for good keyrings.
 
Patrol rifles in police service can be controversial in some cirles but, in reasonable hands why the heck not if lethal force is required?
 
There was not much talk of the "patrol rifle" approach until 1997 and the North Hollywood bank robbery/shootout. (I'm convinced this was not in fact a bank robbery, but an elaborate suicide-by-cop. Just my opinion...)
Anyway, it became apparent that "ordinary" first-responder police officers, armed with pistol and shotgun, were not capable of handling an incident of this nature.
With the ever-present shadow of terrorism, incidents of this type remain a possibility anywhere.
Prior to this, it was sort of expected that responding officers would establish a perimeter and wait for SWAT. Too many assumptions....

Anyway, most departments around the nation are now either actively issuing rifles to field officers and training them in their use, or considering it. SWAT-type units are still the call for hostage situations, sniper and anti-sniper incidents, barricaded suspect situations, and the like.
The patrol rifle is to get the first-responder officer up to snuff firepower-wise with the "active shooter".
"Active Shooter" philosphy is in response to Columbine, of course. Responding police did the above; secured the perimeter and waited for SWAT. While the two lads inside continued killing.....
Now, the paradigm is simple. The first four arriving officers form a fire-team and go in to engage the shooter. Standard small-unit tactics. Room-clearing, securing civilians in place, and the like. In such a situation, going in with an M16 and 30 round magazines is infinitely preferable to the pistol.
 
Police having patrol rifles is fine with me . . . as long as private citizens are not prevented from owning and carrying the same if they so choose.

:D
 
rhino said:
Police having patrol rifles is fine with me . . . as long as private citizens are not prevented from owning and carrying the same if they so choose.

:D
Click to expand...

Agree 100%.

...although I doubt many in the law enforcement community would feel the same.
 
Actually the rank and file of LEOs support the right of citizens to own these rifles and in fact the vast majority support CCW. It is the leadership that opposes these thing, quite often they parrot what the politicians say in order to gain funding for their departments.

I am somewhat split in my opinion of the patrol rifle in squad cars. I understand the occasional need but at the same time I know a short barrel shotgun may be a much better weapon in most circumstances as they are much more flexible in ammunition. A shotgun can be loaded with buck, slugs, rubber pellets for crowd control, CS, doorbusters, etc while the rifle simply is not at all flexible in what jobs it can perform.

I am happy tho that many departments are issuing the patrol LEOs something other than the duty pistol. I know in today's world many officers ride single in their car, for them I would suggest a shotgun with a variety of ammo. For cars with 2 LEOs I would like to see and shotgun and a rifle. There is not a perfect solution for this, we know the BGs can and do carry all manner of firearms, it is not unusual for a LEO to be outgunned. But with practice the LEO can be better with his and that is the key....practice often with the issue weapons, all of them.
 
Unfortunately, police agencies tend to react (or over-react!) to big, messy incidents.

The North Hollywood thing was a kick in the ass to many agencies; with police officers begging rifles from nearby gun stores to engage the two armored robbers.

Now, it must be said that this was a unique incident; still, "after action" on these things leads to a lot of big tough-to-answer questions from citizens and critics. "Why were you not prepared for this?"
We note that it is indeed becoming more common for criminals to obtain and use more potent firepower. By many accounts, the AK is becoming increasingly popular with the big-city gangs, and is fairly ubiquitous in the border "drug war" areas.

Hehe- back when I started in the business, the common "bad guy" weapon was an ancient break-top "owls head" revolver in .32 or .38 S&W. Sawed-off single-shot shotguns were pretty common as well.
 
mwerner said:
We note that it is indeed becoming more common for criminals to obtain and use more potent firepower. By many accounts, the AK is becoming increasingly popular with the big-city gangs, and is fairly ubiquitous in the border "drug war" areas.
Click to expand...

One of the reasons why it seems like the incidence of long gun use in crimes is increasing so much is because it's been rare in the past (well under 5% of all firearms used to commit crimes were long guns).

If something only happened one time, then one more time is a 100% increase. When something is happening less than 5% of the time, then just a few more is a dramatic increase.
 
Likely true. I had heard a news article to the effect that rifles were becoming more popular amongst the bigger drug gangs in the LA area. We also receive pretty much constant "informational" bulletins from a variety of sources; including Homeland Defense.
They had an article up on the Missouri Information Analysis Center bulletin to this effect; an increased usage of such weapons.

Nothing new, really. Maybe 20 years ago we had a State Trooper killed by some white-supremacist lunatic; the trooper stopped the guy for traffic and the fellow came out of the car with an SKS and riddled the trooper's vehicle.
 
mwerner said:
Sorry, thought most everyone on the forum knew I'm in law enforcement. As is the case with many departments around the country, we're getting "patrol rifles".
This is a trend that has been sort-of ongoing, but went into overdrive after the big East LA bank robbery/shootout.
We had a rather long thread on the subject some months ago.
Click to expand...

East LA or prep for martial law?
No politics -just asking.
 
Yes, you've nailed it. Our campus police department is taking over as soon as the kiddies come back in August. No more "officer friendly" for us!

I may be misinterpreting your question... Are you under the impression that every time police agencies around the country upgrades weapons or equipment it's part of some dark conspiracy?
 
Absintheur said:
Actually the rank and file of LEOs support the right of citizens to own these rifles and in fact the vast majority support CCW. It is the leadership that opposes these thing, quite often they parrot what the politicians say in order to gain funding for their departments.

I am somewhat split in my opinion of the patrol rifle in squad cars. I understand the occasional need but at the same time I know a short barrel shotgun may be a much better weapon in most circumstances as they are much more flexible in ammunition.
Click to expand...

Thats why some agencies allow officers to carry both. Accuracy, range, amount of ammo and penetration favor the rifle.
 
One of the reasons we never went to the shotgun is our normally-congested environment. During the day, the place is extremely crowded. Also, the reason for the "frangible" bullets in one magazine for the rifle.
 
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