Off toppic: A different question about steel

ebidis

ebidis

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Jun 23, 2012
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Don't know if this has been asked before, but I was just wondering.

There is a lot of discussion about blade steels here, and that is great as I have learned MUCH. I was just wondering if anyone knows what types of steels are commonly used in GUN manufacturing, and what the typical hardness is.

I know this Blade Forums, and blades are my primary interest, but I was just curious, because the gun manufacturers never advertise steel types, and the is no discussion on gun forums about it, beyond stainless or carbon steel.

I'm just curious about what steels are used in guns. Blade makers flaunt the steel like a badge of honor. Which is great, but I have no idea what steels are used in my favorite firearms.
 
Im pretty sure they dont let us know because it doesnt really matter as long as it stands up to the pressures of the caliber its intended for. They generally disclose the information we need to know such as stainless because it will require less maintenance than a gun that is just blued. I think many manufacturers use 4140 though.
 
Not as sexy to advertise steels/alloys in firearms, when accuracy and mechanical reliability is more important.

However, materials are discussed all the time in firearms/shooting circles. We discuss not just steel, but whether it's MIM, cast or forged for example. People get pretty heated sometimes over alloy compositions and long-term reliability as well. Hardness is generally known, but you'll be disappointed to learn that gun steels tend to be much softer. ...Pistol barrels generally have RC hardness from RC 35-45. Frames and slides tend to be softer nowadays than in their WWII counterparts.

Also, it ain't that important when firearms can be made nowadays out of "tupperware" plastic. It's accuracy, reliability and design that's important in a respected gun.

BTW, in custom pistol circles, the materials for screws, pins and springs are important and get discussed. -In contrast, do you know what the pivot is made of in a folder?
 
CWL said:
Not as sexy to advertise steels/alloys in firearms, when accuracy and mechanical reliability is more important.

However, materials are discussed all the time in firearms/shooting circles. We discuss not just steel, but whether it's MIM, cast or forged for example. People get pretty heated sometimes over alloy compositions and long-term reliability as well. Hardness is generally known, but you'll be disappointed to learn that gun steels tend to be much softer. ...Pistol barrels generally have RC hardness from RC 35-45. Frames and slides tend to be softer nowadays than in their WWII counterparts.

Also, it ain't that important when firearms can be made nowadays out of "tupperware" plastic. It's accuracy, reliability and design that's important in a respected gun.

BTW, in custom pistol circles, the materials for screws, pins and springs are important and get discussed. -In contrast, do you know what the pivot is made of in a folder?
Click to expand...

Good answer! I am fully aware of the MIM vs forged etc. debate. And I do know that the steels are not, and do not need to be, as hard as blade steels. I just have never seen alloy compositions discussed.

By the way, I do not not know what the pivot is made of in a folder. Strangely, never even thought about it.

But now I will probably loose sleep over it! Thanks a lot. :( :D
 
Don't know the specific hardness of rifle barrels, but I can tell you that I've turned target crowns in them and they aren't particularly hard at all. My thought is that they want something tougher and less hard to withstand all the shock and pressures a barrel has to take and then they just line the barrel giving it the hardness and corrosion resistance where its needed most.
 
I remember years ago in a gun magazine that 4140 was very common for blued guns, and it was heat treated to be softer.

This hasn't been asked here (yet), but I read somewhere a while back in Ed Fowler's Knife Talk (I think?) that most gun steel would not make a very good knife blade, due to the alloys being used. If I can find the reference I'll post it.

~Chris
 
Talking of MIM, I think that I have spotted some MIM knife parts. The safety levers on two spring assist Buck knives I have certainly appear to be MIM or a similar process made parts.
 
Yes.... 4140 is the more common/traditional steel for blued steel firearms...hardness in the
mid to low 40s Rc.....
 
Even many of the high end 1911s costing thousands will have mim parts. There is only one custom 1911 maker that I know of that doesn't use MIM, and that's Pistol Dynamics. When gun shooters talk about MIM stuff it's mostly nit picking. A lot of the stuff that's MIM is stuff that doesn't get a lot of wear and tear anyway, like a safety lever. The stuff that does take a lot of wear and tear like a slide release lever, even in MIM form, is strong enough. Put it this way, a reliable firearms manufacturing company wouldn't put a weak part into a gun knowing it would fail prematurely.

MIM isn't always better. Just like forged isn't always better. An example is the Browning Hi-power. Many of the earlier cast frame Hi-powers were much stronger than their forged counter parts.

I'm perfectly fine with MIM unless the part looks super crappy. Then again, my most expensive piece is only about 2.3k. Going back to 1911s, I'd say your non-MIM 1911 starts at about 4k.

A standard Les Baer is guaranteed for 3 inch groups at 50 yards. Yes, they have a 1.5 inch guarantee if you pay more, but generally speaking 3 inches in standard config. My CZ is guaranteed for 2 3/8 inch groups at 50 yards. The trigger pull makes many 1911 owners green with envy. It may have more MIM parts than a Les Baer, but it was much cheaper, has a better trigger (in my opinion), and is more accurate than the standard Baer. Sure one is a 1911 in .45 and the other is a 9mm, but accuracy is accuracy.

As the guy said above, reliability and accuracy tend to come first.
 
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4140 and 4150 are commonly used in non-stainless firearm frames, bolts, and barrels. I think 316 and 416 is used in stainless. Miscellaneous parts can be just about anything depending on use. 3310 / C-158 for AR bolts, 7075 Aluminum for receivers, 6061 aluminum for other parts, 1020 and 1520 mild steels for trigger guards and floorplates, 8620 in castings... there are proprietary blends, different methods of casting, stamping, forging, and machining... I couldn't even begin to guess Rockwell numbers.
 
the4th said:
4140 and 4150 are commonly used in non-stainless firearm frames, bolts, and barrels. I think 316 and 416 is used in stainless. Miscellaneous parts can be just about anything depending on use. 3310 / C-158 for AR bolts, 7075 Aluminum for receivers, 6061 aluminum for other parts, 1020 and 1520 mild steels for trigger guards and floorplates, 8620 in castings... there are proprietary blends, different methods of casting, stamping, forging, and machining... I couldn't even begin to guess Rockwell numbers.
Click to expand...

+1 google ordinance steel. The 4150 can make decent hackers, axes etc. But those would be towards the low end. You might be able to find information on the tempering temperatures and cross list the @ hardness that way. There is a lot of latitude outside of the barrel and bolt.
 
Since we want toughness in guns a hardness of 40-45 HRc is used. Standard of gun steel is 4140 and 416stainless steel
 
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