Oh really?

Joined
Aug 18, 2005
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Read this in Sog Guy's sig:

"Only when the last tree is cut, the last fish caught, the last river poisoned will we realize, we can't eat money. Cree Proverb "

Wonder...when we humans get to this point...how much you wanna bet we'll just switch to completely synthetec food? like in the sci-fi movies/books? :D

We are resouceful in the most insane way! :eek:
 
“A Modest Proposal”


(1729) An essay by Jonathan Swift, often called a masterpiece of irony. The full title is “A Modest Proposal for Preventing the Children of the Poor People in Ireland from Being a Burden to Their Parents or Country, and for Making Them Beneficial to Their Public.” Swift emphasizes the terrible poverty of eighteenth-century Ireland by ironically proposing that Irish parents earn money by selling their children as food.

As I remember, his proposal also included feeding the kids wholesome, full meals so that they would bring more money.

Swift died insane, but he had his moments. Gulliver's Travels comes to mind.
 
Native Americans and the rest of our ancestors could not forsee what technology would make us.....on the one hand the most advanced and civilized people,and the other...monsters.
 
I hope it doesn't come to that (regarding the proverb, not selling children), but I understand the sentiment behind it.

to quote another song "why it always seems to be, we don't know what we got till it's gone. They paved paradise and put up a parking lot"

There is a change happening out there...stay tuned. How's that for vague;)
 
Kismet said:
“A Modest Proposal”


(1729) An essay by Jonathan Swift, often called a masterpiece of irony. The full title is “A Modest Proposal for Preventing the Children of the Poor People in Ireland from Being a Burden to Their Parents or Country, and for Making Them Beneficial to Their Public.” Swift emphasizes the terrible poverty of eighteenth-century Ireland by ironically proposing that Irish parents earn money by selling their children as food.

As I remember, his proposal also included feeding the kids wholesome, full meals so that they would bring more money.

Swift died insane, but he had his moments. Gulliver's Travels comes to mind.

:thumbup: What a great read. Wonderful satire that still manages to make monkeys out of highschool english classes who don't "get it" through the enlightened flowery language. A real favorite of mine.

Jake
 
Swift makes better reading for political science than english. I'm surprised A modest proposal didnt get dug up after the big huricane down south. Most governements arn't advers to a little plagerism.

There are few issues as important as the enviroment, if we don't take care of it now we are not going to survive as a species. Really with out the enviroment there isnt much point in worrying about anything else. A little food math: 2 Kilos of wild anchovies = 1Kilo of virtualy toxic farmed salmon. We arn't that resourcefull, maybe just not that smart.

Freinds don't let freinds eat farmed salmon.

Gord
 
Children have been sold since the beginning of time . If you bought food with the money then the children were sold for food . That in itself is horrendous enough . Sometimes the reality is bad enough without adding the misery of the fantastic .

We defecate into our water supply . Bad enough ? It is shortsightedness beyond belief . To add the fantastic misery of what we actually dump in mid ocean and other inaccesible places is not necessary . If we just learned to take care of our own poop then the fantastic could become manageble . .
 
I am very much in favor of honoring and protecting our environment. That said , a very wise man that I know said that we really need to focus right now on lifting ourselves and thereby others up. Helping them move toward their hearts. Once this is done the environment will be taken care of. People who are not happy, who dwell in misery, will not care for the planet and its life forms any more than they care for themselves. People who hurt have a hard enough time living, let alone saving the planet.

If we help ourselves heal, others will be helped. Soon the planet will be taken care of.

All to often the "environmental cause" becomes yet another way people are divided from one another. All I'm trying to say here is that if we focus on coming together as job #1, while at the same time doing all we can to not harm the earth, we'll get there alot faster and with less pain.

I think we also need to be very careful not to overwhelm and over-burden our children with all this. Sure they need to know that the earth needs our help. But empower them by telling them what the CAN do to help. Not by telling them how many acres of land in a country far away are being destroyed while they eat each bite of their breakfast. I think this is actually the way Environmental Education is now going and I'm happy to see it.
 
On the day we eat cockroaches and call it good, the circle will have been completed.



munk
 
Ok, now I KNOW I'm not ready yet;) I'm gonna need some serious work before I crunch down on one of those little critters
 
Chocolate covered . Yummy .
I,d almost rather go the soylent green route L:O:L.
I do what I can .I am trying to plan a life with minimal infernal combustion useage . Living within my means might be a good start .
 
Krull said:
We are resouceful in the most insane way! :eek:

Yet there have been attempts all along to anticipate problems and begin working out solutions in advance. Nowhere is this more evident that in the field of renewable energy and energy conservation.

(see the crew moving my soapbox into position - scrunch, scrape, bonk)

In 1978 I made a point of moving to Los Alamos National Laboratory because, believe it or not, they had the best solar energy program in the nation and, perhaps, the world. What developed at Los Alamos was the subtle science/art of passive solar design. This low tech approach to energy efficiency in buildings involved an integrated approach to design in which the heating/cooling system became an integral part of the building rather than a high tech add on provided in the final stages. A passive solar system performs its magic without the aid of pumps, blowers, compressors, or furnaces.

Los Alamos identified several distinct generic categories of passive solar design (Trombe wall, direct gain, attached sunspace, thermosiphon) and developed quantitative design tools for optimizing their design parameters and performance as functions of local climatic conditions. A design that works well in Los Alamos is not necessarily best for Rapid City - designs were climate specific. During the 1980s a passive solar industry sprang up in Northern New Mexico and began spreading swiftly to other parts of the country. State and federal tax credits became available to encourage energy efficient construction.

But we were reviled by the big oil and gas interests, and when Ronald Regan came to power and made James Watt (Watt, me worry?) secretary of the Interior, the whole industry was progressively shut down. The program at Los Alamos was killed and we were directed to go back to making bombs. Tax credits for energy efficiency were squashed, an a nascent passive solar industry was suffocated in the cradle.

How good was passive solar? When I built my own house in Los Alamos, I used the design principles that had been developed for direct gain structures. We can cruise through the winter (average low in December and January is about 18 F and the record low for the same period is -18 F) without backup heat. There are associated life style changes. I no longer wear shorts and tank tops year round indoors as I did in California. During winter evenings I'm more likely to wear a good cotton or pile sweatsuit. One year, my wife and I monitored indoor temperature, and the coldest it ever got was 60 F, and that was during the time we were comfortably snoozing in bed under a couple of good quilts.

The moral to this story (drum roll) is that special interests are behind much of the grief we experience in this country. Vote for independent leaders in whatever party you can find them and we will all be miles ahead.:thumbup:
 
Kevin the grey said:
Living within my means might be a good start .

Think about how much less we would waste if everybody just started to that. I boggles my mind to see people my age driving around in BMW's and Land Rovers with houses that could fit a family of 8. Most of them have massive credit card debts, plus student loans. Furthermore, most of the people that I know that are like that have no chance of ever being able to afford that lifestyle with their career choice. We're talking $50,000 a year absolute max in a 20+ year career. A lot of moneyfor many, but they are living a doctor or lawyers lifestyle. When you factor in $20,000 worth of CC debt, $20,000 in student loans, a $1000 house payment, and a $400 car payment. Then kids are going to come along:rolleyes: Instant gratification is the bane of mankind.
We waste so much trying to claw our way to the next toy, to the next house, to keep up with those almighty Jones'.
You don't have to be a tree hugger to make a difference. I live in a little house, set my climate control to be room temp during the day and comfy at night, drive an economy car, and i can see a real dent in my waste and pollution as well as a much smaller dent than some in my pocketbook. My wife and I are probably living a little below our means right now, but that's going to put us ahead when it's time to pay back student loans, or buy a bigger house, or plan for an emergency.

Jake
 
Good for you Jake---I could stand to live more like you and your wife. We need to trim things down here at my house. It's hard with the loan I just took out for school, but we hope to be in good shape when I get out. I'll have a much higher income potential, and that combined with living more simply should mean that I will work less too.
 
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