"Ohhhh Ohhhh . . . ME TOO!!"

John Hollister

John Hollister

Joined
Feb 3, 1999
Messages
3,180
Let me start off by saying I realize that any twelve year old playing with Dad's computer can be an instant expert.

But I've noticed a phenomenon in the last year or so. It has caused the collapse of three individual forums on the net that I am aware of. Probably more.

"Ohhhh Ohhhh . . . ME TOO!!"

Has anyone else noticed the "Naysayer" pig piles that go on here on the Internet? I could post a string called "My (insert popular knife here) gave me worts" and thirty people would swear their's did the same thing and further that it caused degenerative bone lose.

One maker rep I was talking with put it pretty well. "One guy would post that his 'model name' had a defect in the lock. Alright, sure, it can happen. Then twenty people would jump in screaming about their knife having the same problem. The whacky thing is, we may have had two or three knives returned for this problem in the history of our company and here are twenty people screaming with the same problem. OK, maybe a bad run, it happens. I say 'Call me, here's the 800 number, we'll make it right' . . . . no calls, no returns, no nothing. A week later someone mentions a loose pivot on his 'model name', then the same twenty people scream that their knife has exactly the same problem. Again we do the 'call me, we'll fix it . . . "

Granted problems do occur. Without a doubt.

Personally, I have a fairly heavy knife habit. Am I the only one that feels blessed not to have had all my knives fall apart in my hands or had them chop my fingers off when the lock fails or gotten worts or . . . .

Are problems as rampant as we are lead to believe by some strings? Are these "Knife-ochondriacs" or just Trolls picking fights to be self important?

John

[This message has been edited by John Hollister (edited 02-01-2001).]
 
Good point, John.

I own mostly Benchmades, and I constantly see threads where people have QC issues with their Bm's.
I have never had any problems whatsoever with any of my BM's, and even the older ones (over 6 years old on my 970) have not failed.

In summary, I agree with you. If people don't actually have a problem with their knives, why jump on the bandwagon against the maker?? If you have a legitimate complaint, call the 800 number & talk to them directly!!

Strange what people will do or say just to fit in.

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firedept_md_wht.gif


E Mail me anytime:
INVADR1@aol.com
 
I`m like you John.Since I`ve been collecting knives I`ve only had to send one back for repair and it was promptly fixed.Am I just lucky?Probably not.A few knives I have aquired had minor blemishes,but were not bad enough or were in a relatively concealed area and I lived with it.If you look hard enough at anything you can find something that is`nt perfect.

The type of chain reactions you mentioned happen because some people just like to bitch about something or are the misery loves company type.If theres something wrong with your knife that you can`t live with deal with it privately with the maker or manufacturer.If you fail to recieve satisfaction or think you were treated badly then go ahead and post.
 
Ohhhhh Ohhhhh... Me too! I've never had any problems!

Seriously, a good example of that is the many times that someone will post "My new Benchmade came out of the box with the edge so dull it wouldn't cut melted butter!" (Of course, the spine of the blade sliced his finger off, but that a different problem
wink.gif
) And then dozens of other folks will chime in about their dull Benchmade.

Well, I probably own upwards of a hundred BM knives (serously), and not one of them has failed to shave the hair on my arm out of the box. Maybe I just have weak hair? Maybe I just know how to shave?


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Chuck
Balisongs -- because it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!
http://www.balisongcollector.com
 
What would be the point?

To what end? What kind of sad person would do that? I had problems with one BM AFCK, it was a well documented problem. BM tried to fix it and it is much better now. It still has problems though.

Even after thanking BM publicly, I was banned from posting when I told people it was still liner/blade rubbing and moving of center. Was I making this up? I have an e-mail from BM saying my AFCK did have problems. It was not something I did. Others had had the same problems and dozens of private and public posts later I had the whole picture of a basic flaw in the model. Yet BM insisted they had never had this problem before or were aware of it! Go figure!

W.A.

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"To strive to seek to find and not to yield"
Tennyson
Ranger motto

A few useful details on UK laws and some nice reviews!
http://members.aol.com/knivesuk/
 
John, I definitely see your point. At the same time, if a company has a problem, it needs to be fixed.
Personally, I have a good reputation at my job, because I'm not satisfied unless everything is done right. The reason that has not changed over the course of years is that I do not compromise my work ethic. I have a responsibility not only to the people who pay me, but to myself. I take that seriously because I want to be able to be proud of my work, and I want them to keep paying me!
Anyone who pays for a product or service deserves to have it done right, the first time, IMO. That goes for any company/individual/McDonald's, whatever.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by John Hollister:
Are problems as rampant as we are lead to believe by some strings? Are these "Knife-ochondriacs" or just Trolls picking fights to be self important?</font>
Click to expand...

That's the problem with the internet. We have no way of knowing whether or not someone is telling the truth, or just wants to stir things up.
If you ask for my opinion on something I own, I'll tell you what I think. But it'll still be ONE person's opinion about ONE product.
I don't think that every person who makes a negative comment about a product has some hidden agenda. It's like our dads said when we were little, "Learn from my mistakes, so you won't have to find out the hard way".
You might see my reply in the QC thread as bashing a good company, while I might see it as helping someone out.
Every thing we say or do (assuming we're honest) is based on our own experience. And everybody's experience is different.
No, it's not right to jump on the bandwagon, and rag someone you don't really have a problem with. Nor is it appropiate to assume that other people's given experience is false just because it doesn't match your own (that's not for you John, it should apply to all of us).
I think getting personal is a waste of time, considering the medium.
My .02
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by nowhere fast:
John- The thing you are complaining about is now happening in this post.

Donald</font>
Click to expand...

Nicely put!
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I can sort of see where John is coming from, but it really does work both ways. If I post "My LCC rules!" (which it does in fact
wink.gif
)and then forty other LCC owners reply to say, "right on!" does that mean they don't really mean it? I mean how exactly can you tell?

Why someone would post a complaint about their knife that was non-existent is beyond me. Usually, it's the other way around- owners defending their purchases- not decrying them.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by CODE 3:If people don't actually have a problem with their knives, why jump on the bandwagon against the maker?? If you have a legitimate complaint, call the 800 number & talk to them directly!!

Strange what people will do or say just to fit in.</font>
Click to expand...

Again, how would you know if they do or not? Isn't it reasonable to assume that a manufacturing "goof" would effect more than just one knife? In your estimation, then, was it improper for me to inquire around the forums if anyone else had a LCC that fired whenever it felt like doing so? Isn't that part of the whole community thing? I did end up calling MT- but what was wrong with researching any existing issues?

I dunno- there are probably always going to be trolls, but I won't assume that every one that voices a complaint is one. I think it's better just to take the posts for their face value, and not worry about reading too much into them.

Firebat


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Name's Ash......Housewares.

[This message has been edited by Firebat (edited 01-31-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Firebat (edited 01-31-2001).]
 
Of all the knives that I have owned, only one has had a problem. That was a stripped screw on the handle of my Spyderco Military. I contacted Spyderco and a new screw was sent out to me immediately.
I agree that problems can happen, but when they do the manufacturer should be given the chance to make things right. If they don't then we have the right to voice our complaints.
I find it hard to believe that so many people have all these problems and do not bring it up with the manufacturer. IMO most of these problems never existed in the first place, and these people are trolls looking to cause trouble.
Just my opinion, for what it's worth.
Keith.
 
I think you're right, there is a lot of "me too-itus" in some of these QC issues, and you have to wonder if some of the people involved even actually own the model in question.
The really rotten part of it is that a person just quietly lurking the forums for ideas on what new knife to buy could very well be steered away from an excellent blade because of these kinds of threads.

The only real way to deal with it though, is for the manufacturer or maker to come into the forum and tell them, "Hey! Send that baby on in, we'll look it over and fix it, and if it turns out to be a trend, we'll fix that TOO!"
Of course, when nothing happens, that could be documented. (to the chagrin of the "me to-ers"

It's a difficult issue though, because there ARE often serious QC issues brought to light here at BFC that otherwise might not have been caught for a long time. (if ever.)



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Tráceme no sin la razón, envoltura mi no sin honor
 
You've got a valid point, John. In fact, it's the reason I didn't mention which of my knives had failed in my recent Folder Lock Safety post.

As Firebat points out, though, it can work the other way. There was a recent post in which the author rather indelicately bashed a popular knife for lock failure. A bunch of folks quickly came to the knife's defense. Unfortunately, the original poster never came back to say whether he contacted the company in question and, if he did, what their response was to the problem.

Whether we call it "mob mentality" or "trial by Internet", the phenomenon is the same. Why does it occur? I don't know but maybe it's just that some people want to have something, anything, to say. In any case, it might make for an interesting study. Any psychology students out there?
biggrin.gif


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Cheers,
Brian

He who finishes with the most toys wins.
 
Then again, just maybe people are actually having the problems that they claim.

If you don't believe that Benchmade has consistently poor edge bevels/grinds on many of their knives (although they do seem to be inproving recently), or AFCK's have a tendancy to have a ton of blade play when closed (enough to hit the opposing liner), then just come to any gun and knife show with me for an afternoon.

A few years back, I was sitting around with a bunch of knuts at a show talking knives. A well-known industry guy mentioned something about how the MOD Trident had a tendancy to fail the spine whack test relatively easily and consistently. One guy handed him his personal Trident to test. It failed miserably. I chimed in that mine locked up perfectly and would not fail. Of course, as soon as I got home and found my Trident, it failed the test repeatedly. It was really no better than a slipjoint. But it did lock up perfectly!
wink.gif


And if you don't think that Emerson production knives had terrible fit and finish for a knife of that price range, you simply haven't handled any.

A lot of it may also be due to a learning curve. Many folks don't notice problems until someone else points it out. I've also learned more in a couple of afternoons walking around a show with a maker than I would have on my own. Stuff I never would have noticed before becomes painfully obvious once you know what to look for.

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Kelly
My Custom Knife Collection

Member NCCKG, SCAK, and AKTI

Deo Vindice
 
And sometimes it's something not worth making a stink about on your own -- a loose blade on a knife you traded away, or don't use enough to take the effort to fix -- but when someone else mentions it, you tell them that they're not alone.
 
IMHO this is "me too" phenomenon or whatever you call it is not specific to the QC problems only.
I've seen much more threads here where one person says my knife-XXX rulez! and then dozens of replies say the same
wink.gif
Somehow that never caused anyones discomfort.
Why not to apply the same logic and call those trolls as well then? May be manufacturer is promoting his new product that way?
Yes, there's a possibility that some of them trolls, but labeling everyone who states the problem is not right IMHO.
Same thing, how do we know who called that manufacturer & who didn't? Ask everyone who complains about anything to provide a confirmed hardcopy of their conversation with the manufacturer?
& the last, some problems are so common that it doesn't make sense to call or waste your time on it.
The edges on ALL BM knives that I have (12) were too thick, rough etc, in worst cases plain dull. Interesting, what was I gonna do, send all 12 knives one by one to BM to sharpen them for me? Or since I've never done that never comment on that
smile.gif
?
After all when 20 ppl complain abot the same problem may be that manufacturer will bother to take a look at the problem.


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zvis.com
Have Fun,
Alligator
 
There must be at least twenty or thirty defective knives or any product for each one returned to the manufacturer -- probably more like fifty. Most people won't even return a defective product if it fails the day they buy it -- even if it's completely useless, and defective knives are seldom useless.

-Cougar :{)
 
Senator, I just tried the spine wack with my MOD and it failed. I did tried again and it failed. I e-mailed MOD and they told me to send it in.

Update: MOD has sent me a brand new Trident, even though the one I had before had seen some use. They have switched to a new liner lock, so no more problems.

[This message has been edited by det (edited 02-18-2001).]
 
I have to agree with Cougar Allen, I think that most defects go unreported. I also think that most defects occur in inexpensive knives. This makes sense to me...people are more willing to take the lumps if the price is low.

In my only negative post about a knife here, I responded to a question and I layed out my dissatisfaction with the knife. It was an inexpensive knife and there were few replies. I did however get a note from the designer (it was a collaboration knife), detailing the difficulties he had had with this knife, and the company producing it.

For me, it was not a bad experience - I was able to correspond with a maker, I had a crappy knife, and I was not out much. I did post my bad experience though...because 20 years ago this less than perfect knife would have meant much more.


Steve-O
 
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