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Ok guys, I got the sharpmaker and have run the Henckels chef knife through the med.
- Thread starter Cackmandu
- Start date
TravisH is correct. You must first sharpen the blade on a lower grit to the apex before you move on to a higher grit. Keep sharpening on a lower grit until it is sharp. If your edge is extremely dull it may need to be re-profiled. Depending on your edge, the Spyderco brown rods may not be aggressive enough to re-profile. You can either grind away forever on the brown stones or use something more aggressive to apex the blade and then progress to a higher grit.
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- Apr 12, 2009
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That's a pretty strong clue. The vast majority of factory edges on kitchen knives are usually pretty 'thick' (wide edge angle, and/or literally thick steel immediately behind the edge). Using just the rod likely has rounded that thick(ish) edge off even more. Reprofiling down to 30° inclusive (15°/side) or lower will make a huge improvement, and will also make further maintenance of the edge a lot easier, down the road. You might consider the diamond or CBN rods for the Sharpmaker, for that task, which will make it much easier.
David
That's what I was looing for, thanks David! Are the diamond and CBN rods made by Spyderco?
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- Sep 22, 2014
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Yes, Spyderco makes Diamond and CBN rods for the Sharpmaker.
So what were the results of your Sharpie test?
Did you mark the whole edge bevel?
Did you try the rods in both the 40° and 30° slots?
In which slots did the rods best hit the aoex of the edge?
Absolutely!! I've used a Sharpmaker for over 20 years and, trust me, these will change your sharpening life. Bought some CBN rods 6 months ago and wish I'd known about them a lot sooner. For reprofiling, cut about as well as the diamond ones but are less fragile.
OK Travis, I can tell this is going to be an very educational exercise for me, now just walk me through a few things as I explain my findings!
As I put the sharpie markings on the edge I could feel more than a few chips and nicks, this tells me, as suggested, even after running the blade through the sharpmaker med. and fine stones at both angles twice, I haven't sharpened the knife a bit, and I have a lot more work to do! I made 20 swipes per side after marking the blade at the 30d angle and had to pull out a magnifying glass to see if I had removed any of the sharpie, just a very slight bit on the edge nothing up to the shoulder! Correct me if I'm wrong, but this tells me that the back bevel is either less than 15d or just totally rounded and needs re-profiling with the CBN stones to get a true 15d back bevel. I'm thinking Edges was correct in stating the sharpening rod has rounded the edge, but it looks to me like I would have seen slightly more sharpie removed up the to shoulder. Please advise!
As I put the sharpie markings on the edge I could feel more than a few chips and nicks, this tells me, as suggested, even after running the blade through the sharpmaker med. and fine stones at both angles twice, I haven't sharpened the knife a bit, and I have a lot more work to do! I made 20 swipes per side after marking the blade at the 30d angle and had to pull out a magnifying glass to see if I had removed any of the sharpie, just a very slight bit on the edge nothing up to the shoulder! Correct me if I'm wrong, but this tells me that the back bevel is either less than 15d or just totally rounded and needs re-profiling with the CBN stones to get a true 15d back bevel. I'm thinking Edges was correct in stating the sharpening rod has rounded the edge, but it looks to me like I would have seen slightly more sharpie removed up the to shoulder. Please advise!
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Using the Medium rods?
Right. Using the SM's 30° slots, if you do not see any Sharpie being removed except at the very edge then the bevel is less than 15°dps.
Reapply the Sharpie and test again with the Medium rods in the 30° slots.
And do you still feel any chips and nicks? Also try running a sharp edge of a plastic BIC pen down the edge to detect chips and nicks.
If little Sharpie is removed and you feel no chips or nicks, how well does it cut? Try phonebook paper?
If you still feel chips and nicks, you might try more pressure on the Medium rods.
If still feel chips and/or still won't slice, you may indeed need something more coarse like the Diamond or CBN rods.
To reprofile it to >15°dps, you will also need something more coarse.
Right. Using the SM's 30° slots, if you do not see any Sharpie being removed except at the very edge then the bevel is less than 15°dps.
Reapply the Sharpie and test again with the Medium rods in the 30° slots.
And do you still feel any chips and nicks? Also try running a sharp edge of a plastic BIC pen down the edge to detect chips and nicks.
If little Sharpie is removed and you feel no chips or nicks, how well does it cut? Try phonebook paper?
If you still feel chips and nicks, you might try more pressure on the Medium rods.
If still feel chips and/or still won't slice, you may indeed need something more coarse like the Diamond or CBN rods.
To reprofile it to >15°dps, you will also need something more coarse.
Yes, medium rods only! I will go 30d again and see what I get on the imperfections!
Weird thing. I ran the paring knife through the med. rods at 30d around 100 stokes per side and got paper slicing sharpness immediately, this knife has as much or more use than the chefs knife, and has been neglected just as much!
Try doing only 1, 2, or 3 strokes after applying sharpie. Then look closely at the blade to see where it's being removed. I would be very surprised if your edge is under 15 dps. I would expect more like 22 to 25.. possibly more. Doing just a few strokes and then checking is a better check.
I suspect you're going to need a much more coarse stone/rod/belt based on your description. I can't see or touch the knife, so this is just internet diagnosis and might be completely wrong!
Good luck to you.
Brian.
I suspect you're going to need a much more coarse stone/rod/belt based on your description. I can't see or touch the knife, so this is just internet diagnosis and might be completely wrong!
Good luck to you.Brian.
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Early on in my sharpening quest, I tried to sharpen my brother's kitchen knives on a Sharpmaker. Most were 20-30 years old, and had never been sharpened. I didn't even know why he bothered with knives, because most sticks were sharper. One of the misconceptions I had at the time was that simply removing metal was the key. And I literally spent hours hacking on just a few of them. One set of strokes seemed just a little better, then a few more and it seemed worse.
But with freehanding (of which the sharpmaker really is, just at a helpful angle), consistency is sooo much more important than the metal removed. So the suggestions above are very important. I'm not saying you don't need to remove metal because a very dull knife will most likely need a full re-profile. Mark up the edge, make a few strokes, check, and mark up again if needed. In the process of the stroke cycle, even the slightest wrist or arm twist can roll your intended angle away from the apex (missing the edge), or into the edge and destroying previous work.
It will take a lot of practice to get the coordinated consistency. And if really new to sharpening, a big kitchen knife may be more difficult to practice on than something shorter. And the diamond rods may be very necessary if an edge is really out of whack. No matter what grit you are using, you should be able to get a very sharp edge if done properly, just more "toothy" at the lower stages. Then and only then is it time to move on to the next finer grit. Personally, I spent way too much time refining the bevel scratches out of an actually very dull edge.
I never really got to the point that I could effectively re-profile (to my standards anyway) on the Sharpmaker. I needed a controlled guided system to be satisfied. Even though I still use the sharpmaker a ton for light touch ups. One thing to remember is that very few knives are exactly at 15d or 20d per side. They can be anywhere. So unless they happen to be perfect angles (not likely), two things are needed. Either a full profile, or perfect eye-hand coordination to keep the blade at that differing angle off vertical.
Pick up some cheap gas station/Wallyworld knives, mar the edge, and practice, practice, practice. When you start getting the results you are happy with, then go back to those kitchen knives.
But with freehanding (of which the sharpmaker really is, just at a helpful angle), consistency is sooo much more important than the metal removed. So the suggestions above are very important. I'm not saying you don't need to remove metal because a very dull knife will most likely need a full re-profile. Mark up the edge, make a few strokes, check, and mark up again if needed. In the process of the stroke cycle, even the slightest wrist or arm twist can roll your intended angle away from the apex (missing the edge), or into the edge and destroying previous work.
It will take a lot of practice to get the coordinated consistency. And if really new to sharpening, a big kitchen knife may be more difficult to practice on than something shorter. And the diamond rods may be very necessary if an edge is really out of whack. No matter what grit you are using, you should be able to get a very sharp edge if done properly, just more "toothy" at the lower stages. Then and only then is it time to move on to the next finer grit. Personally, I spent way too much time refining the bevel scratches out of an actually very dull edge.
I never really got to the point that I could effectively re-profile (to my standards anyway) on the Sharpmaker. I needed a controlled guided system to be satisfied. Even though I still use the sharpmaker a ton for light touch ups. One thing to remember is that very few knives are exactly at 15d or 20d per side. They can be anywhere. So unless they happen to be perfect angles (not likely), two things are needed. Either a full profile, or perfect eye-hand coordination to keep the blade at that differing angle off vertical.
Pick up some cheap gas station/Wallyworld knives, mar the edge, and practice, practice, practice. When you start getting the results you are happy with, then go back to those kitchen knives.