Ok, I feel kinda silly asking this.....

H

Hoplophile

Joined
Feb 23, 2001
Messages
435
Here goes. I just got a Spec Plus Frontiersman, the cheapo version of Senior Bagwell's Hell's Belle. I wish to use it as the basis for my own Hell's Belle project, ie; re-handle, re-guard, and re-heat treat.
1) Is there a solution that will remove powder coating, or are me and the sandpaper hanging out for a while?
2) I presume these are stick tang, anybody out there know?
3) Can factory produced knives be re-tempered?
4) Just seems like this blade is too good for it's current set up. 11 1/8"x3/16" 1095 :) (w/ Rubber handle and rubber guard :barf: )

I am currently only set up for making kit knives, so actually forging or griding my own is down the road.
I want to
1)put stainless Bagwell blade catcher type guard on,
2)a curly maple handle, and
3)differential heat treat, ala japanese style,(or should I try something else?)
Any guidance with this project will be welcome:D
 
<< I wish to use it as the basis for my own Hell's Belle project, ie; re-handle, re-guard, and re-heat treat. >>

You are basically tearing apart a new knife to get a blade. That seems a little extreme.

Other options are to find a similar kit blade, hire a maker to grind out a copy, or make the blade yourself. Your best bet may be to hire a maker to make a blade for you. That way you'll get exactly what you want.

Just my opinion.....
 
It was only a $30 knife w/sheath. Decent blade blanks are that much or more, and to my knowledge no-one makes an 11 1/8" Arkansas toothpick style bowie. Best I've found is the 8" solingen "Rifleman's Toothpick" from Crazy Crow, at $28 plus postage, I'll still come out ahead doing it this way. Yes I would be tearing apart a new knife, but to make it better. If I had $200-$400 to pay a custom maker to make me one, I'd just buy myself a grinder and use up that 100 or so pounds of 5160 behind the house.;)
 
CJ was right on with his remarks. But I have a few observations to add. If you start out with a cheap $30 knife, in the end that's what you'll still have when you do your remake. The steel is the heart of any blade Hoplofile. Cheap steel is cheap steel no matter how it's heat treated or who does it.

Sure, it will be good practice for you. But, in the end you have the same cheap steel in your hand with a few embellishments that make it look 'purty' to you. That's cool, but what do you have, really? Hmmmm....

Getting a custom maker to forge or grind you out a blade can be very inexpensive depending on who does it and what steel you choose. The blade is the easy part man. Good luck on your project. It shows you have the desire to get more for your $$$. A sign of intelligence. But I personally would hate to see you waste your time on something that could otherwise be rewarding. Start with good steel to begin with and if you luck out and finish it off nicely you're a winner twice over! Have fun, in any case.
 
Hoplophile, i got a deal for ya... drive about 2 hours east, come to my shop and we can make ya one from scratch... keep the $30 knife for $30 purposes and start over from scratch to make yourself you ideal bowie. In my opinion if you are gonna put that much work into a blade, it might as well be all from scratch.

If your interested to learn just email me we can arange something...

Alan...

alanfolts@sprintmail.com

www.warrior.org/foltsknives
 
Hey, lay off the guy and let him play. Max, since when is 1095 bad steel? It's an Ontario knife, I don't think it's a bad blade. The reason I started making knives is because I had torn up a few production pieces to remake them in my own image and liked it.
 
Hoplophile, take Alan up on his offer! He makes awesome blades. And after working with Alan you can play with your Ontario project too.

In answer to the coating question though, I think the only way (practical way, that is) to get it off is sand paper and elbow grease. Coatings are usually baked on and designed to STAY on, so you can't just soak the knife in vinegar or something liek that to get the coating off.
 
Yeah, I thought 1095 was good steel? I just figured the heat treat would have been iffy on a production blade.(Thanks for the back Stu) What about "airplane stripper". I got peoples who restore old cars and they got enough of that stuff to make another New Jersey, course a little elbow grease is good for the soul. We've all got to start somewhere right?

Alan-Offer greatly accepted. Shall I stop at Shaw's BBQ in Williamston on my way down? Probably won't be til November though. Oh, & I understand, it was only a lousy 3 points after all. :p
 
Go for it and have some fun. You'll learn alot, and might even end up with a great blade.

For starters, the coating will probably have to be sanded off. However, if you know for sure that its an epoxy based coating ( I think That what Ontario advertises)you can find some solvents that will soften it and make your job easier. It won't be a pure epoxy so epoxy thinner or whatever won't take it off completely but it should soften it up a bit.

I don't know about the differential tempering, I'm sure you can do it, but you'll either have to do it yourself or hire someone who forges. I don't know of any HT services that offer differential.

After that you should be set, it'll be a great big kit knife.
A few that you might want to check out though are the Bowies at www.jantzsupply.com .They've got a few that are 440C and look pretty sweet for kit knives.

And if you get the chance, take Alan up on his offer.
 
Hey Hoplo!!

Sound like a good plan to me! I own Bagwells and I also make copies of the Helles Belle. Your idea will work on many levels.

First, the blade coating. Go to your local auto parts store or auto section at Walmart and pick up some Duplicolor brand spray on paint stripper. Leave it on for awhile and the coating will peel off in strips. You will still have to sandpaper since there will be residual but also, knife companies who use the balck coating tend to have a semi rough finish on the steel too.

You can probably cut the rubber handle off. The only thing tricky about the Helles Belle is the c-guard.

One other aspect of the knife you want to use is that it is excellent steel, but I would guess that is has a uniform hardness from the tip to the tang. You can differential heat treat it yourself very easily. Just put the cutting edge down in a pan of cold water and start heating the spine until the blue color starts spreading halfway down the blade. Since this is such a long one....you will have to do this about 2 inches at a time. Use a standard propane torch. You'll have a knife hard edge and a spring back. If you really want to do it like Bill, then play the flame at little more at the tip and let the color go into the first 1/2 in. of the edge there. This will steal some temper form the edge there, but this area of the blade doesnt see much heavy cutting, plus it will be less prone to breakage.

Let me know if u have any other questions!

Greg
 
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