OK. I haven't been flamed for awhile so......

UffDa

UffDa

Gold Member
Joined
Sep 11, 1999
Messages
42,596
Let's see, your average well known and successful knife maker probably has more orders then he can fill and is probably bitched at constantly because it takes so long to fill his orders. So what does he do? He goes to knife shows. I haven't kept track of how many major knife shows there are every year, but I bet there's at least six a year. Each knife show means at least a lose of one week out of the shop plus hundreds of not 1000s of dollars in expenses.

Don't get me wrong, I don't begrudge these guys time away from the grinder for a little fun and recreation, but it does seem a bit unfair to the customers who have been waiting 2 or 3 years for their knife and have the same maker selling knives off of his table at a show.

This is just my opinion. What's yours? Let the flames begin.

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Experience is what you get when you were expecting something else.
 
I'll bet they generate more customer contact and interest and, eventually, sales by going to shows than it costs them.

Of course, they're all knife knuts themselves, or they wouldn't be in the business.
 
This will be a hot topic for sure.

I don't begrudge makers with long backlogs who go to shows and sell their stuff to folks at shows. They have to. If a maker got hot, and had a two or three year backlog, then decided to stop going to shows, in two years when he caught up, where would he be? A maker has to be able to constantly generate excitement about his knives to keep his pieces in demand. It's a must for someone who relies on knifemaking to put food on the table.

Think about this too. A maker at a show isn't as likely to have the exact knife you want anyway. Surely if his stuff is hot enough there'll be a great demand, but wouldn't you rather get the exact knife you want, the way you want itI have been to three smallish shows, and have met makers like Ken Onion, Bob Lum, Jess Horn, Paul Fox, Chris Reeve, Peter Marzitelli, etc. I have yet to find a knife at a show that I would throw money down on the table for. ? The only way to for me to get that knife is to place a custom order.

~Mitch

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My Hobby Page
 
Knifemakers also go to shows for the same reason that the rest of us do: to buy knives. Or even just to look at knives. It's more important for a knifemaker than it is for a collector to see what new things are coming out. They can also meet each other to discuss knives, construction methods, materials, etc. So it's not only sales and meeting customers, knifemakers are also doing product research, buying knives, & hanging out with other knife makers & knife knuts.

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Jason aka medusaoblongata
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"I have often laughed at the weaklings who call themselves kind because they have no claws"

- Zarathustra
 
Yeah! And some of 'em take five minute breaks to post on internet forums! Bastids.

Seriously, a career is far more important than any single order. It is not a knifemaker's "duty" to stop promoting themselves, taking orders, or even going out and having fun occasionally once they achieve a backlog.

To keep them fed and happy consistently, the backlog needs to be maintained, not cleared.
 
I am going to my first knife show today in Timonium!!! I think the makers make up knives to get away from their order or to do new designs and want feedback. When they have a backorder, they probably get sick of the same knives all of the time and want to do something different. I just started knifemaking, and have 4 orders, 1 kit and 3 customs. I have 9 other knives I am working on. Will I do the orders first? Yes and no..i grind several during a grinding session and since I am learning, I grind until I am comfortable and go very slowly. I know real makers don't have to worry bout this, but I sure do!! I try to do the kits over mine, but sometimes I need to just have fun and grind or shape, etc and not worry bout certain specs. I like being creative. I don't blame knifemakers for going to shows and selling stuff. I'm sure some of it is stuff people cancelled the order for. Maybe it is stuff they started on before they were swamped. Who knows! all i know is that people can pay the money up front and pick up a knife, personally pick it out, etc. I kinda like that idea! and the makers cang et feedback about new designs and make some $$!!
 
Hey Guys...

This topic has been brought up before,,and the best explanation was by Rob Simonich,, so maybe if Rob would explain his stance on this topic One more time,, We could All understand again..

ttyle

Eric...

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On/Scene Tactical
Leading The Way In Quality Synthetic Sheathing
 
What annoys me is that most of these guys don't have toilets in their shop. They have to run back into the house to go to the can. That's more time away from the grinder and here we sit, waiting for our knives. Sheesh. And some of these guys probably go camping and take vacations and things like that. I know that Simonich guy takes time to go hunting, 'cause I saw a pic of a deer he killed. What a bunch of crap! When I want a handmade, custom knife, I want it right now. I don't want to have to wait until someone gets back from vacation or hunting. For the prices they charge, these guys don't deserve to have a life of their own.

And what about those guys that moonlight? Why should they work two jobs? They are already getting rich selling knives. Why should we have to stand by and wait and wait while they are spending most of their time working for a weekly paycheck?

I think the best thing to do is for all of us to quit our jobs and start making our own custom knives and show them how it's really done.
rolleyes.gif


Hoodoo, with four custom knives on order
 
HooDoo,
We have secret meetings and continually conspire against you, the collector. We select a few patriots to set 5-10 year backlogs, so the rest can comfortably have 2-3 year backlogs and not look bad
smile.gif


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"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
George Orwell
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by dogman:
HooDoo,
We have secret meetings and continually conspire against you, the collector. We select a few patriots to set 5-10 year backlogs, so the rest can comfortably have 2-3 year backlogs and not look bad
smile.gif


</font>
Click to expand...


You know, I have always suspected that. Seriously, I think the grinders should come with leg irons to keep their noses to the grindstones.

You all make good points. I was just thinking about a few makers who have backlogs running 8 years. One in particular is in his '70s. What do you think the chances are of him filling all his backorders?

I wasn't bitching, just thinking out loud.


[This message has been edited by UffDa (edited 12-10-2000).]
 
Truthfully, it is important to go to the shows to network, see old friends, advertise, buy supplies and get inspiration. Supplies are very important. You don't want to buy ivory, mother of pearl, stag, exotic hardwoods, etc without looking them over. I know makers that take nearly every cent they make at a show and buy supplies before they leave. You have to be able to make more knives.

Makers with severe backlogs always set aside x amount of knives to take to shows (and now some make x amount to put on their web sites). What was said earlier is true, if you don't get your face seen at the shows and interface with your customers, your customer base is quickly going to dry up. The names you see in these forums are all guys that do the shows and participate in the various forums. Do you think Neil Blackwood or Matt Lamey would be as popular today as they are if they weren't active in the knife community, either virtually or for real? In time, yes, but not like they are now. I only chose those two because I have witnessed the impact the forums have had for their careers. There are many others.

Now, as far as a makers popularity, just because they get a name and start taking in lots of orders, should they speed up their output to meet the demand and compromise the integrity and quality of their product? Hell no. Should backlogged makers take deposits? Hell no, that is poor business and a smack on the collector. You tell the collector what the wait is, when it gets close to the time to make the knife, contact the customer, ask them if they still want the knife, then take a deposit to cover material expenses. If the customer doesn't want it, they can move to the next name on the list. You know you are getting your knife in a short time and are not so worried about dropping some duckets. If you don't like the wait, there are many other great knifemaker's to choose from.

There are anomilies to the system. Even if R.W. Loveless was still taking orders, why in the world would you place one knowing the wait. The same with Moran. If you really want one, buy one in the aftermarket. Their knives are like corvettes, very nice to have one, but just another expensive toy that always seems to be available in the open market. I bet there are more Lovelesses for sale right now than many makers have made knives in their entire life.

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"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
George Orwell
 
Hey Uffda, ya said ya wanted flamed...
wink.gif
Just doing what I can to help out.
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Hoodoo

I get some pleasure from finding a relentlessly peaceful use for a combative looking knife.
JKM
 
Does this mean I can't stop to eat anymore? Guess I'll have to have my wife feed me while I am at the grinder. Wouldn't want any of my customers to have to wait one minute longer than nessasary.

Arthur D. Washburn
ADW Custom Knives
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by BeowulftheGeat:
Does this mean I can't stop to eat anymore? Guess I'll have to have my wife feed me while I am at the grinder. Wouldn't want any of my customers to have to wait one minute longer than nessasary.

Arthur D. Washburn
ADW Custom Knives</font>
Click to expand...

Did you say 'wife'? You dare to have a wife?

Wifes should not be allowed for knifemakers as well. They demand attention which keeps these guys from making more knives.

wink.gif

Kris
 
It's all about dedication Arthur.
If you were SERIOUS you'd be using I.V.s and a catheter!
now get back to work!
tongue.gif

LOL

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I cut it, and I cut it, and it's STILL too short!
 
8 years backlog, eh? Not if he keeps smoking like a chimney!
smile.gif


Please note that there are makers who are members of knife organizatons who attend shows as a matter of requirement. And yes of course, where better a place than a show to display your wares, gather feedback from potential and current customers, perhaps get magazine review exposure, chat and exchange ideas with fellow makers, and equally as important but often overlooked is to meet the people who buy and use your knives.

L8r,
Nakano
 
My experience with shows and makers with long backlogs is that they will only have a few knives on their table. A lot of guys who can't keep up with their orders only go to one or two shows a year, so customers remember they are still alive and making knives.
 
A lot of makers are on the internet?
Now that has to cut into their work day!!!

G2

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"The Road to Hell is Paved with Good Intentions!"
Take the time to read your Bible Now, don't be left behind...
 
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