Just got back from the local County Court building were I had my CS medium tanto voyager confiscated after I handed it to the Sheriff before going through the metal detector. He deemed it a "gravity" knife due to the fact that he could flick it open. After talking to his superior I decided not to argue the point further after being told that my options were to surrender it or face arrest for possesion of an illegal knife.
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OK....Now I'm P****d
- Thread starter jbutera
- Start date
Too late now, but I don't believe confiscation without a charge or arrest is legal. It's known as "theft".
If I'm carrying an Uzi in the mall, would the cops just ask me to hand it over and send me on my way? Don't think so. Either it's illegal, therefore you take it and charge/arrest me, or it's not.
Hope the Sheriff like his new knife, courtesy of you.
If I'm carrying an Uzi in the mall, would the cops just ask me to hand it over and send me on my way? Don't think so. Either it's illegal, therefore you take it and charge/arrest me, or it's not.
Hope the Sheriff like his new knife, courtesy of you.
- Joined
- Nov 7, 1999
- Messages
- 6,651
Hi...
First,,sorry to hear that you lost a blade..
I do have to ask why you would bring a knife into a Court building though ??
These places are high tension to begin with.
Leaving it in the car or at home would have been a better plan..
I'd just chalk it up to experience and forget about it...
At least you aren't out Huge $$$
ttyle
Eric...
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On/Scene Tactical
Leading The Way In Quality Synthetic Sheathing
First,,sorry to hear that you lost a blade..
I do have to ask why you would bring a knife into a Court building though ??
These places are high tension to begin with.
Leaving it in the car or at home would have been a better plan..
I'd just chalk it up to experience and forget about it...
At least you aren't out Huge $$$
ttyle
Eric...
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On/Scene Tactical
Leading The Way In Quality Synthetic Sheathing
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2001
- Messages
- 135
Normally I don't worry too much about whether my carry knives are sheeple friendly but frankly one of the few places where I will consider this factor or going un-equipped entirely is a court house. I agree that its crazy to call a CS Voyager a gravity knife there is no way I would try to bring anything more than a small non-one handed opener pocket knife and frankly I'd most likely leave that in the car too.
Just out of curiousity exactly how loose was the action on your knife?
Again, I don't think what the LEO did was right but this was a pretty avoidable problem.
Just out of curiousity exactly how loose was the action on your knife?
Again, I don't think what the LEO did was right but this was a pretty avoidable problem.
Just remember, folks, the issue here is not whether or not it was allowed into the courthouse (they have every right to prohibit entry), but theft by intimidation.
How many of you think this wanker went back to the station, filled out a report, and filed the Voyager away in an evidence locker? Gimme a freakin break. Illegal or not, he had NO right to abscond with a citizen's property for his personal use.
Poor judgement to come in with the Voyager? No doubt. But you cannot convince me that what this crook with a badge did was in the interest of upholding law & order.
Public officials who use their office for personal enrichment are some of the worst kinds of lowlifes there are.
How many of you think this wanker went back to the station, filled out a report, and filed the Voyager away in an evidence locker? Gimme a freakin break. Illegal or not, he had NO right to abscond with a citizen's property for his personal use.
Poor judgement to come in with the Voyager? No doubt. But you cannot convince me that what this crook with a badge did was in the interest of upholding law & order.
Public officials who use their office for personal enrichment are some of the worst kinds of lowlifes there are.
- Joined
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Been there... and then some. Every time I here stuff like this, it pisses me off. I'm sorry bro, it really sucks.
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Big boys need pointy toys
ICQ# 117419996
RKBA!
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Big boys need pointy toys
ICQ# 117419996
RKBA!
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2001
- Messages
- 135
Ah...well that pretty much confirms that he was just being an arse-hole as opposed to making a legitimate judgement call.
What really sucks is the intimidation tactic of "If you want to keep argueing about this you can do it in front of a judge." It doesn't cost them anything to drag you into court but they know that most likely you won't want any legal entanglements. You'd have to have a bit of an extra bankroll laying around to get justice in this case and that really stinks.
What really sucks is the intimidation tactic of "If you want to keep argueing about this you can do it in front of a judge." It doesn't cost them anything to drag you into court but they know that most likely you won't want any legal entanglements. You'd have to have a bit of an extra bankroll laying around to get justice in this case and that really stinks.
GigOne
Gold Member
- Joined
- Nov 27, 1999
- Messages
- 15,783
I'm in agreement with RH.
"Bubba da rent-a-guard" now has himself a "4 or 5 months old ~ hardly broken in" knife.
But. . .on the other hand ~ "Bubba da rent-a-guard" can easily slap jbutera's a$$ in cuffs and take him down stairs to see some black bars and a bunch of newly acquired and often unfriendly cell mates.
The only way to show "Bubba da rent-a-guard" the real world is to catch him (on or off duty) with the knife in question.
But then again. . . If you frequent the "court house" often ~ don't mess with huntin' "Bubba." "Rent-a-guards" and "cops" (in general) hold grudges and have a sick enjoyment of dickin' with people !
<CENTER><font size="4" color="#FF0000">EDUCATIONAL CONTENT</font></CENTER>
RULE #1: If you decide/elect to enter a facility, building or location that posts guards and or metal detection equipment at the entrances/exits. . . <font color=red>Leave your blades (and guns) at home or in your vehicle !</font>.
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Livin' Life ~ Full Throttle
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"Bubba da rent-a-guard" now has himself a "4 or 5 months old ~ hardly broken in" knife.
But. . .on the other hand ~ "Bubba da rent-a-guard" can easily slap jbutera's a$$ in cuffs and take him down stairs to see some black bars and a bunch of newly acquired and often unfriendly cell mates.
The only way to show "Bubba da rent-a-guard" the real world is to catch him (on or off duty) with the knife in question.
But then again. . . If you frequent the "court house" often ~ don't mess with huntin' "Bubba." "Rent-a-guards" and "cops" (in general) hold grudges and have a sick enjoyment of dickin' with people !
<CENTER><font size="4" color="#FF0000">EDUCATIONAL CONTENT</font></CENTER>
RULE #1: If you decide/elect to enter a facility, building or location that posts guards and or metal detection equipment at the entrances/exits. . . <font color=red>Leave your blades (and guns) at home or in your vehicle !</font>.
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Livin' Life ~ Full Throttle
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- Joined
- Dec 20, 1999
- Messages
- 123
Unfortunately for you j', you ran into a LEO who can't distinguish between the letter of the law and discretion. Out of the over 600,000 LEO's across the country, there are bound to be a few of them. We are not all like that, thank God!
As for RH's comment "Too late now, but I don't believe confiscation without a charge or arrest is legal. It's known as "theft".",
I have to disagree.
I have confiscated several illegal knives w/o arrest. The real term is "Officer Discretion", and you do not have to arrest to confiscate an illegal item. Under Penal Law Section 265, in New York State, it is illegal to merely possess a "gravity knife". No intent to use it illegally is required.
Perhaps you don't want to stir the s*** and make it stink, but if you do not feel you possessed a gravity, contact the Sheriff (not the deputy who took it) and see where it goes. But remember this - if it is deemed you did possess a true "gravity knife", you could still be arrested. You may be talking to a Sheriff who also follows the letter of the law, and wishes an arrest to be made!! If the knife was truly confiscated, it should have been logged as evidence and secured.
Sounds like you've been inconvenienced enough already.
No easy answers for you on this one.
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Chris Hatin
http://www.hatintec.com
"Are you ready for the defendant, Judge?"
"Yup. Bring the guilty bastard in."
As for RH's comment "Too late now, but I don't believe confiscation without a charge or arrest is legal. It's known as "theft".",
I have to disagree.
I have confiscated several illegal knives w/o arrest. The real term is "Officer Discretion", and you do not have to arrest to confiscate an illegal item. Under Penal Law Section 265, in New York State, it is illegal to merely possess a "gravity knife". No intent to use it illegally is required.
Perhaps you don't want to stir the s*** and make it stink, but if you do not feel you possessed a gravity, contact the Sheriff (not the deputy who took it) and see where it goes. But remember this - if it is deemed you did possess a true "gravity knife", you could still be arrested. You may be talking to a Sheriff who also follows the letter of the law, and wishes an arrest to be made!! If the knife was truly confiscated, it should have been logged as evidence and secured.
Sounds like you've been inconvenienced enough already.
No easy answers for you on this one.
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Chris Hatin
http://www.hatintec.com
"Are you ready for the defendant, Judge?"
"Yup. Bring the guilty bastard in."
glockman99
RIP Dann, you were a good guy.
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jbutera,
Have you been in contact with his Supervisors' Supervisor yet, regarding this confiscation of your knife?
I really would not let it "rest" until I got my knife back, or at least found out why I couldn't. (I assume that the blade-length [3 inch] and blade-style [tanto] IS legal in the city/county where this took place...).
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Dann Fassnacht
Aberdeen, WA
<A HREF="mailto:glockman99@hotmail.com
glockman99@yahoo.com">glockman99@hotmail.com
glockman99@yahoo.com</A>
ICQ# 53675663
Have you been in contact with his Supervisors' Supervisor yet, regarding this confiscation of your knife?
I really would not let it "rest" until I got my knife back, or at least found out why I couldn't. (I assume that the blade-length [3 inch] and blade-style [tanto] IS legal in the city/county where this took place...).
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Dann Fassnacht
Aberdeen, WA
<A HREF="mailto:glockman99@hotmail.com
glockman99@yahoo.com">glockman99@hotmail.com
glockman99@yahoo.com</A>
ICQ# 53675663
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Yes, demand that you speak with management. Demand to receive your legal knife back. Threaten litigation.
I can see their requirements against having knives in the building. Most have lockers to allow you to lock up your handgun or whatever they won't allow. But your knife is not illegal. PERIOD. Someone does not have a full grip of both the law and case history on what gravity knives are.
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Ron Andersen
Consumer Services Manager
SOG Specialty Knives & Tools, Inc.
Website: www.sogknives.com / Email: ron@sogknives.com
The SOG Forum
I can see their requirements against having knives in the building. Most have lockers to allow you to lock up your handgun or whatever they won't allow. But your knife is not illegal. PERIOD. Someone does not have a full grip of both the law and case history on what gravity knives are.
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Ron Andersen
Consumer Services Manager
SOG Specialty Knives & Tools, Inc.
Website: www.sogknives.com / Email: ron@sogknives.com
There is no way that the knife in question even remotely qualifies as a "gravity knife" under NYS Penal Law 265.
This is not a question of "discretion". That type of conduct is outright illegal.
I would follow through and insist on the return of your legal folding knife.
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Dick
AKTI Member # A001365
This is not a question of "discretion". That type of conduct is outright illegal.
I would follow through and insist on the return of your legal folding knife.
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Dick
AKTI Member # A001365
Elvislives
Gold Member
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- 3,034
Without questioning the LEO's motives or credentials...
If you feel that your rights have been violated and choose not to take action then you are surrendering your rights.
If you feel that your rights have been violated and choose not to take action then you are surrendering your rights.
well imho if its either an arrest or they take the knife let them have the darned thing - you will spend a helluva lot more $$ and aggravation than any cold steel knife is worth - i was called to jury duty in federal court and forgot i had my BM AFCK in my pocket, and a can of pepper spray - ooopppsss - hey it was early in the morning, and i simply forgot, and also it was about a 3 block walk from were i parked to the courthouse, thru some of the seedier parts of town, but , still i woulda left in the car if i woulda been thinking - anyway when i walked up to the detector i told the marshall i had goofed and he said no problem, and retrieved a plastic zip lock bag, wrote my name on it, and after explaining they were not responsible for theft, allowed me to deposit the items in the bag and go on about my business, retrieving the bag when i left - they are always cool to jurors though, i guess they realize that the juror is giving up his time, etc to help the system work - they were cool for sure - no mention at all about 'gravity knife' or such BS - anyway we all know better next time lol
sifu
sifu
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Report him to Internat Affairs. This is one of the reasons why many black men like me do not like the police now. And I am a conservative.
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- 7,497
That guy got exactly what he wanted, a new knife for free....sorry to hear this happened.