ok..what did I do wrong

S

SShepherd

Joined
Nov 23, 2003
Messages
1,234
:(

besides the obvious shunt, why isn't the core in the center of the billet?

I use 1084 and 15n20 for the outside and W2 for the core
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Uneven forging. Or you ground too much from one side getting the dings out. A good way to help prevent this is once you have the sides welded in place grind the edges to find the core. Then grind heavy bevels in the edge keeping the core centered. This will give you a better idea of where the center is and how much you have to remove from each side. Burt Foster did a great WIP for his laminate bowie process. It can be applied to sanmai. Here is the link. http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=720148
 
well, my grinds are even....thats why I was so dissapointed with what happened to the core.:(

guess I got too ambitious
 
Did you do any pre grinding to remove scale or hammer marks? By the way the core looks, it looks like the blade/core was twisted in the forging process. If you do a heavy bevel on the edge before your final forging you can really get that core right down the middle.

Also did you forge the bevels before grinding? This can be a common problem if you do not do the method mentioned above.
 
I'm not arguing, but the grinds are not even....at least in the sense the Chuck is talking about. You have more core showing on one side than the other. That type of construction is actually one of the more difficult to achieve correctly. You must ensure that once everything is welded, the core remains dead center in the billet...and the entire billet stays straight and true. Just a stray hammer blow here or there with "tweak the core one way of the other. In the case of the blade pictured, I suspect that the core was slightly to the left near the end that became the tip of the blade. After forging you have to be careful throughout every successive step in the process to ensure the core is always centered. It's one of those instances were what seems like very minor things, can have huge impacts in the end.
 
Ed Caffrey said:
I'm not arguing, but the grinds are not even....at least in the sense the Chuck is talking about. You have more core showing on one side than the other. That type of construction is actually one of the more difficult to achieve correctly. You must ensure that once everything is welded, the core remains dead center in the billet...and the entire billet stays straight and true. Just a stray hammer blow here or there with "tweak the core one way of the other. In the case of the blade pictured, I suspect that the core was slightly to the left near the end that became the tip of the blade. After forging you have to be careful throughout every successive step in the process to ensure the core is always centered. It's one of those instances were what seems like very minor things, can have huge impacts in the end.
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I pounded it to a flat billet, then stock removal from there-- thats how i know the bevels are even but the core is off.
when I welded the laminate , I made sure it was 3 pieces of the same dimention.
I'm guessing a drawing die probably isn't the best idea for me to use on this construction until I get better at it
 
A C Richards said:
Did you do any pre grinding to remove scale or hammer marks? By the way the core looks, it looks like the blade/core was twisted in the forging process. If you do a heavy bevel on the edge before your final forging you can really get that core right down the middle.

Also did you forge the bevels before grinding? This can be a common problem if you do not do the method mentioned above.
Click to expand...
I did, I used a surface grinder to try and make sure everything was equil.

I didn't forge the bevels in, just ground them. I'm thinking I screwed the pootch drawing the billet out.

lol...I might have bit off a bit much right off the bat:o
 
Drawing die, that's your problem. Better to forge flat and square and even. You git off on the tip when drawing. Try again and give Burt Foster's trick a try. Now I am more concerned with why did you get the inclusion?
 
A C Richards said:
Drawing die, that's your problem. Better to forge flat and square and even. You git off on the tip when drawing. Try again and give Burt Foster's trick a try. Now I am more concerned with why did you get the inclusion?
Click to expand...

ok..I knew someone would find where I went wrong:thumbup::o

as far as the inclusion. I dunno, I'm tack welding the corners of the billet only. Getting it to heat (using borax on the edges for flux) and when it's hot I start in the center and tap the billet working my way to the edges. After it's welded (or so I think) then i go to the power hammer.

would mig welding all the seams closed before heating work better?
 
I always do a light etch between major forgings to look at what is going on in a billet and blade

-Page
 
SShepherd said:
ok..I knew someone would find where I went wrong:thumbup::o

as far as the inclusion. I dunno, I'm tack welding the corners of the billet only. Getting it to heat (using borax on the edges for flux) and when it's hot I start in the center and tap the billet working my way to the edges. After it's welded (or so I think) then i go to the power hammer.

would mig welding all the seams closed before heating work better?
Click to expand...

I MIG all my seams shut before heating. Dry welding is the way to go IMHO. Don't need flux if you do weld up the seams. Just grind off the weldment on the edges before you forge on them.
 
BTW, I just got into making my own pattern welded steel.I'm a stock removal guy and I usually only use stainless. I've been reading over everthing I can find here showing "how". LOL, some of you guys are way over my head, but you inspire me to try harder.
This was my 2nd billet


Sean
 
I posted this on the other forum you posted on, but thought the guys here might like my system.

San-mai is always a bit of a guess. you have to realize that the difference you are displaying is a few thousandths one way or the other. Even the pressure of a single hammer blow can make a spot farther left or right off center.

What I do is profile the blade, and grind the edges flat and smooth, but leave the sides un-ground, then etch. Look at where the core is....and if it is straight...chances are that it is both off center and rambles a bit.
Now, grind a 45 degree bevel on it, trying to keep the core centered ( don't worry about unequal sides). Etch and look again. Grind one side or the other until the core is roughly centered. Once the core is centered, start raising the bevels from the edge up, not the spine down. Move the bevels from side to side as needed to get the best san-mai match on the sides...but expect for there to be more damascus showing in places on one side than the other. Once the bevels are about half way up the blade ,flatten the sides to create the ricasso and upper sides in the thickness desired. Done this way, the core may be off on the spine, but the edge should be pretty well centered. File work will help disguise the spine.
 
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