OK> What is the difference between Ontario RAT knives and Rat Cutlery?

fbusmc

fbusmc

Joined
Jan 28, 2008
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I'm a big Busse fan, but have recently seen some interesting knives made by RAT Cutlery. I get Brigade Quartermaster and see RAT 7s in D2 Steel made by Ontario with the RAT design on the blade. Yet, I also have seen a RAT Cutlery site, that offers a RAT 3,4,6 and a SERE 5" 1/4" thick in the making... What's the deal? Is there any copyright infrigement going on with this triangle rat insignia? is there difference in Steel? There is a big difference in price. I would like to get a a couple of these to abuse and save Busse knives $$$.. Any help on the differences would be greatly appreciated..
thanks
 
fbusmc said:
I'm a big Busse fan, but have recently seen some interesting knives made by RAT Cutlery. I get Brigade Quartermaster and see RAT 7s in D2 Steel made by Ontario with the RAT design on the blade. Yet, I also have seen a RAT Cutlery site, that offers a RAT 3,4,6 and a SERE 5" 1/4" thick in the making... What's the deal? Is there any copyright infrigement going on with this triangle rat insignia? is there difference in Steel? There is a big difference in price. I would like to get a a couple of these to abuse and save Busse knives $$$.. Any help on the differences would be greatly appreciated..
thanks
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If you do a search you should find LOTS. This has been kicked around forever and there TONS of threads dealing with it.

Brett
 
I'll sum up very quickly.

The Ontario RAT line that you see is a line original designed and developed by Jeff Randall and Mike Perrin (and perhaps a few others' input). The triangle insignia is from the Randall's Adventure Training program. These things were contracted by Ontarion to mass produce these knives. Due to issues with quality control, new design ideas, differences between everyone on what the warranty should be, etc., The Randall's Adventure Training people decided that it would be best to do their own thing and make their own knives when their contract with Ontario was done.

R.A.T. Cutlery are the original real deal behind the mass produced knives that Ontario made and their knives are of much higher quality/ fit and finish, better design than the Ontario line. Also, their warranty is good FOREVER and is no questions asked. If you have a problem with your knife, Jeff and Mike will either fix it or replace it. They are good guys who are very one on one with their customers.

When Ontario saw that R.A.T. was running a company and producing a knife that is the model for the way these things should be done, they unfarely and self-destructively took action. R.A.T. Cutlery was not breaking any law. They weren't bending any rules. They were in no breach of any existing contract. Ontario did all of these things. Ontario wants to not only keep making money off of R.A.T. and using their likeness, they would also like to see R.A.T. Cutlery, a superior knife company, go away. This pretty much ruined their business coming from the R.A.T. supporters.

When it comes down to it, Ontario makes a good, relatively inexpensive user knife that was originally designed by Randall's Adventure Training. Quality and f&f may vary. R.A.T. Cutlery believes in their customers, makes knives for THEM, not money, and makes a higher quality product with attention to detail. R.A.T. is OUR company. Ontario is a corporation of money makers.

LONG LIVE R.A.T.!
 
D sum'd it up ! RAT cutlery is manufactured by Rowen mfg. and quality control is 99.9 % on top of the product they produce for Jeff/Mike . Fit & finish is noticed first if you own Rat Cutlery RC knife and compare it to the Ontario RAT knife.
 
the RAT cutlery customer service is the best I found in my life. in the foggy time when Ontario and RC started arguing, I was dealing with Ontario for warranty issues. Ontario was escaping from the problem. Mike and Jeff have been very kind and prompt in answer, besides trying to build the best match between my needs and their condition
 
I do agree that RAT Cutlery is much more customer friendly, and I think they are on the right side on the legal issue. As such I understand why most RAT users have turned against Ontario. However, from an objective standpoint, when emotion is put aside, I think the Ontario RAT knives are being unfairly put down by current users. You must remember that the Ontario versions were made in colaboration with RAT Cutlery, and they are the RAT Cutlery designs. Cuality is very similar, other than some bells and whistes. Hate Ontarion, but don't hate the high quality knives they make.
 
If you managed to get a good Ontario - then good for you. However, Ontario continues to steal intellectual property. They are not a legitmate in their endeavors. I personally find your sudden 'burst' of posts in defense of Ontario Knives rather suspicious.

Few of us would claim to hate a good RAT-3, RAT-5, RAT-7, TAK or RTAK. But the fact of the matter is that you have come to this sub-forum and recommended repeatedly now purchasing an Ontario over an RC-produce and this flies in the face of the actual debate regarding intellectual property rights.

Nobody blames people who have bought an Ontario Rat out of ignorance. But people who buy an Ontario Rat while knowing the story about theft and dishonesty are just not really creditable......
 
As I have stated, I buy my knives based on quality and value, not ideology. If you so strongly believe that this sub-forum is dedicated to people of superior moral character, who would always choose the RC version of the knives, then why don't you put a big disclamer on top of the page, so people don't post these questions.

I have no problem with you recomending the RC knives because you want to support RAT Cutlery-a noble cause. However, be honest about it, and don't attack my intelligence and knowledge of knives, claiming that the two versions have such significant quality differences.

Don't let your hatred of Ontarion effect what you think about the quality of their knives.

As far as intelectual property rights, this is a trademark issue, not an intellectual property one, and is a matter of law, not debate.
 
Actually, i think you got a pretty cordial response here.
Go to, say, the Busse subforum and launch into things by saying "Why pay the exorbitant cost of a Busse when you can do the same thing with a Buck? Buy Buck!" -- see how fast you get your posterior handed to you.

I don't think anyone has a real problem asking why you should buy an RC over a RAT. But it's bad form to put them down and shout "Buy [Insert competitor]!"
That kind of thing would be more important in the General Knife forum, or if you really want to be vitriolic, the Whine & Cheese forum.
 
That's why I asked if there is a rule here about posting coments like that.
People seem to keep asking for comparison between the two knives, and it's a question I had in the past, so I wanted to give an honest answer. If that is a problem, I will stop answering, but I think you should tell people not to ask such question at this sub-forum, since only one answer appears to be considered "good form".
 
The question has been asked and answered many times in many threads politely.
I think it's your mannerisms that rubbed people the wrong way.
 
Perhaps you are right. I must say however that all the polite answers seemed to be very one sided, that's all.

All of my agressive comments were replies to people who jumped on me for saying that the differences were not that significant. Read my original posts, and tell me if I am wrong.
 
rg598 said:
Perhaps you are right. I must say however that all the polite answers seemed to be very one sided, that's all.

All of my agressive comments were replies to people who jumped on me for saying that the differences were not that significant. Read my original posts, and tell me if I am wrong.
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your fist 2 posts I replied with a :foot:;) meaning becareful your asking for it. And then when i seen you did it agian I warned you in almost plain english.
 
Were my original posts offensice in some way other than expressing an opinion different from the rest of the answers?

Again, I'm sorry, but I didn't understand that there was only one type of answer allowed on this forum. That is why I asked you if there was some rule about not anwering the questions honestly. I now see that this is not a sub-forum interested in open discussions about RAT knives, but rather a place where people can come to reinforce the vews that they already have.

Just, please, put some type of warning so when people come to read the posts in order to get information, they know that what they are reading has been censored, as all people that have a different opinion have been booted out of the forum.
 
Your first posts were kind of extremley pro Ontario (which I have no problem with, it is what ever knife company suits you, I really like spyderco for folders personally)
and I was trying to give you a warning so you wouldn't step on any toes. If you want to post about how great Ontario is good for you, try General Knife Disussion or wilderness and survival. But please don't go into a ford manufacturing company and start talking about your new chevy.
 
rg598 said:
I do agree that RAT Cutlery is much more customer friendly, and I think they are on the right side on the legal issue. As such I understand why most RAT users have turned against Ontario. However, from an objective standpoint, when emotion is put aside, I think the Ontario RAT knives are being unfairly put down by current users. You must remember that the Ontario versions were made in colaboration with RAT Cutlery, and they are the RAT Cutlery designs. Cuality is very similar, other than some bells and whistes. Hate Ontarion, but don't hate the high quality knives they make.
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I pretty much agree with all of this.

rg598 said:
Get the Ontario Rat 3! It is the same quality as the RC 3. Any minor superiority that the RC 3 might have is not worth the large price gap. The only actual difference is that the RC 3 handle is longer. I like the shorter one-it depends on how large your hands are.
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I guarantee that the part in red is what started the fire.
The part in bold is opinion and open for debate, and most would probably disagree with the difference being minor and not worth the price.

rg598 said:
Perhaps you are right. I must say however that all the polite answers seemed to be very one sided, that's all.
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Probably because most here do consider the RC product superior, and worth the price increase. Kinda goes without saying that the regular posters to the RAT Cutlery forum would hold RC products in higher regard than their direct competitors, you shouldn't have expected anything else.
 
rg598 said:
Just, please, put some type of warning so when people come to read the posts in order to get information, they know that what they are reading has been censored, as all people that have a different opinion have been booted out of the forum.
Click to expand...


opinion..
im pretty sure Jeff likes that word, have you seen the orange RCs or the pink izulas? You might have, but if you did then you have seen some "opinions" by people who have posted here in the R.A.T. forum, like texastony for example.
 
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