OK Your chance to help me desing a new Balisong!

M

Mike Turber

Joined
Oct 2, 1998
Messages
5,461
Guys I am going to start making some Bali's and want your input. Tell me what you want to see and what you do not want to see. Keep in mind I need to keep the price in reason.

Also I have contracted to have some traditional style Bali's made with a Tanto blade, wood inserts and more. Look for more info soon.

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Best Regards,
Mike Turber
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I want to see a knife with some replaceable ball bearings in the handles. Wouldn't be too cheap, but wouldn't that be cool? I've got about a billion tiny video-cassette bearings lying around - I'm thinking about designing some handles around a couple of them just to see if it's a practical idea.. When the blade eventually starts to get loose, you could just pop in some new bearings and you'd be good as new.. surely that's been tried before? Who knows?

--
j rainey
 
Ahhhhhhhhhh Yeah........... you're the man Mike.

I am a definite fan of the Tanto blade, but to be honest, for me, the blade shape isn't the most important part.

~ Strong pivot pin set-up. Torx screws like the new BM offering are ideal, but thicker diameter steel pins are just as good (and probably cheaper).

~ Strong handles. I'm not a fan of insert type handles. They just can't take my daily routine without falling apart. That said, I love the feel of the handles on the DF-201. The width is perfect, whereas I think the BM's are way too narrow. You just need a better material, or casting method to make them more durable. Especially where the Tang pin contacts the handles when open. BIG problem there. Milled steel would be perfect, but the cost would no doubt be a problem.

Theres a post in here called "Revelations.......????". You might want to check it out for some observations I had after building a Franken-Bali.

I'll Fed-Ex it to you if you're interested. Anything to further the cause. And don't let the look fool you. It is actually a nice feeling Bali.




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Clay
www.balisongxtreme.com
Because......
getting 'em open
is half the fun!
 
Really lookking forward to seeing success of this project.

I'd like large, wide blade pin. Not necessarily only one. It usually digs into the handles to make the blade and the handles loose in a while.
If the pin contacts the handles with larger area, the time will come much later.

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\(^o^)/ Mizutani Satoshi \(^o^)/
 
I have several with ball-bearings in them. They are not considerably faster or smoother. I was recently discussing this with a maker who has made many, many balisongs. He commented that he'd tried to make some with ball-bearings and that the ball bearings wouldn't stand up to the abuse. Maybe he wasn't using the best possible balls, but I gotta think that ball bearings are a false, misguided dream.

I'm with Clay. Strong pins and strong handles.

Take as your models the Benchmade 45, the Compass Industries 1200, any of the Taylor Manila folders or Parker Gypsy knives. All feature strong pins and strong handles.

Personally, I'm tried of skeleton handles and would like to see more inserts and patterns.



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Chuck
Balisongs -- because it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!
http://www.balisongcollector.com
 
Great to be able to give some input, I´d love to see your balis beeing a succes.
My opinion is that basically, there´s a) crap or b)Benchmade on the market, so new middle of the road balis would be fine.
I think there´s three design philosophies for balisongs: Flashy (and cheap), for those kids that want one because it´s sooo cool, but don´t want to spend that much money.
Quality mechanical attributes (latch gate, handle weight etc.) for those who got hooked on balisong manipulation and play with their knives a lot.
And lastly, quality cutting/self defense tools (good working blades etc.) for practical use.
My suggestions:
Heavy handles, the BM steel handle balis feel just right. Don´t know if the new BM 42 with titanium handles will feel that great.
Sturdy handles, the Zinc alloys that are mainly used in cheaper balis are inacceptable for me. I´ve broken some, and the dent made by the tang pin gets deeper real fast and the bali gets slack, insecure when closed etc. Not good if you actually want to use the knife, I hate loose balisongs. My old BM still locks as tight as on day one - steel handles rule.
I don´t know exactly if it works as advertised, but a latch gate would be a fine idea.
No handle inserts, they make the handles weaker and always pop out. If you want them, use epoxy or other good glueing.
Quality blades, no-nonsense shapes that are suited for cutting. A Kris looks nice, but ever tried to resharpen one? Good steel and quality heat-treatment.
Hex/torx screw quality pins. You can adjust them, you can replace them if they should break, and you could replace the blade/handles.
Just my personal opinion, hope it helps.
 
Definitely a franken bali, if you made a reasonably priced franken bali, then I would buy it in a second
 
Mike,
I know you are going to get varied answers because a lot is taste but everyone agrees that a mid-range price butterfly that will not break or fall apart is needed.
I personally like inserts but know that cheapies have inserts that come off too easily. If you look at a Compass 1200-Chi No shi-they have micarta inserts and I've never seen one come off and they're built like tanks.I also agree 100% with Chuck Gollnicks opinion of the Compass,Taylors manila folder and the Parker Gypsy. They were all reasonably priced,well made butterflys that manipulate well.

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Tim



[This message has been edited by timdennis (edited 04-08-2000).]
 
Good quality materials. (ATS-34 or VG-10 blades)

Machined SS handles … ( only three steps to this on a 4 axis CNC. I do not see how it is cost prohibitive if your numbers are high enough) Cast handles are not capable of the same strength.

A skeletonized handle type (available with or with out the latch)

Also a handle type with scales (also with or with out a latch)

Quick draw Kydex sheath.

What the others have said about the pivot points.

All American made components.

Price point between $120 – 150

This would be a hot button package for me.


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“We are the pilgrims masters; we shall go, always, a little farther.”
 
after some time in the machine shop aka franken bali mad lab. I also came to the conclusion that is is the pins that make the handles loose, and ball bearing wouldn't really do much. Make em have HUGE pins and large tang pins.

I am a fan of white insert knives. Trying to build up an "immaculate collection" here. However I do not like the tanto. The bowie is always the way for me. Lately the deep clip bowie (imada high hollow) had caught my fancy.

Heavy stainless handles, nice hollow grind on the blade, white micarta or such inserts. Maybe even index and thumb grooves on the handles. Parker has made them, why not have a bali with a pistol grip handle?

if you wanna go for the marketing toy, make a bali with removable inserts and removable or interchangable handles or blades. People might be hesitant about buying numberos fresh balis but paying a little less for 'hop up' parts is something that really ticks up.

as a kid once I know how big my bill was with them japanese model cars with their 'cheaper' soup up parts. Sometimes I end up with a car that in the end was worth buying 3-4 stock cars without me noticing. Good luck MIke!

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<A HREF="http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~soo/balisong/balisong.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~soo/balisong/balisong.html
</A> If you play with love you will be heartbroken; if you play with knives you will [bleed]


 

Hey, if you just wanted to get this out as quickly as possible, I'd be happy with one of the extant skeleton handle Jags w/440C blade and solid steel handle pins.

If you really to start from scratch, hmm...
I'll just list good and bad for your reading convenience:

Good:
1. Blade steel that's hard enough to hold a decent edge, but not so hard that it will break if dropped (440C/AUS-10 rather than ATS-34?).
2. Steel skeleton handles.
3. Tang pin that allows the handles to touch ever so slightly at the bottom when open (a la Clay's "revelation" post).
4. Strong/replaceable handle pins.
5. Latch gate/something on the pin itself to prevent it from hitting the blade.

Bad:
1. Inserts.
2. Crappy blade steel (no more 440A!)
3. Hollow pins.
4. Chisel ground tanto blades. Lum-style tanto blade would be nice, though.
5. Bead blasting.
6. Painted, slippery handles.

Oh, and price range? Street price of $40 would be perfect.

thanks for reading

p
 
Visually, I think the best way to make a real impact on the market is with full-length scales. Consider micarta. There are durability issues, but there are durability issues with every bali that doesn't have solid steel handles. Does that mean everyone should do skeletonized handles like Benchmade? I hope not. You've got to strike a balance between durability and visual distinction.

Full-length rounded scales guarantee that people will be able to identify your knife at 10 paces.

As far as the other suggestions go, yes, the pins should be strong and the tang pin muy grande.
 
This might not be very cost minded,but i had an idea about the tang pin , i liked the rectangular pin idea and expanded on it, what if the pin was rectangular and had teeth that would interlock into the handle like. this would reduce blade movement and effectivly double the area on the pins to absorb the shock, and wouldent wear down as fast, oh well,
 
Mike,

While not, at least to my knowledge, copyrighted, and while widely copied by the oriental knockoff houses, the two-small-holes-between-large-holes skeleton pattern used on Benchmade's skeleton handles has long been associated with Benchmade and its precursors and I'd encourage you to respect that and show a little originality in any skeleton handles you consider making.

Why make a me-too knockoff of Benchmade's design? Why lower yourself to the ilk of the cheap copycats? Be bold. Innovate! Contribute something new to the balisong.

If you're interested, I have a few designs I've done myself that could share with you privately.



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Chuck
Balisongs -- because it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!
http://www.balisongcollector.com
 

I'm not an expert by any means, but....

-I prefer tanto points, but mostly for Aesthetic reasons.

-Kydex sheaths are popular right now.

-How about using a strong magnet for closure?

-Barring a magnet, put the swinging clasp on the safe handle, so you can open it with the pinky (personal preference), or even better, allow it to be moved from handle to handle!

-No more Skeltons, please! Give us MEAT!
Look at all of the inlays they use in jewelry. There is no reason our balisongs can't be as fancy.

-Removable/Replaceable/Upgradable inlays.
Single/double screw in replacements allow
you to produce one knife, while still
allowing for variety.


Don't know how much of this is feasible or not, but it'll get the imagination (and the arguments
smile.gif
moving.


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-Jon
http://www.22world.com
 
Well.... I don't like wearing a belt sheath for it or leaving it deep in my pockets... so I considered performing surgery on some of my cheap import balisongs and drilling holes in and putting some pocket clips. I have a couple diagrams of how I thought it should work. Probably sounds weird, yes?
smile.gif


-Chang the Asian Janitorial Apparatus
 
I also would like to see a bali with replaceable pins. The idea of a knife that i could take apart and clean and repair at home, makes me feel all gooey inside. Oh, and different blade styles is a must, in fact how about all kinds of custom parts that I can inter-change. Skeleton handles could switch out with inserts, weehawks could switch out with tantos, and a kydex sheath and a............WOW, so many options available!!!!
 
It sounds like everyone believes in sturdy pins and flexiblity. I agree. The idea of pins that can be removed and/or replaced and/or tightened is great. I don't know how much your looking to keep the per peice cost to, but you should spend a lot on the pins! I would also like to see some kind of wood inserts, but that just a personal preference.
 
I tried the magnet thing, it liked to close and stay closed while i was manipulating it, now if we could make a tiny electromagnet that could be turned on and off that would be great, but the knife would way about ten pounds and be more magnet than knife
wink.gif
 
I agree with those who see problems with ballbearings, but a bronze bushing should work well with LARGE solid steel pins or Torx screws. The dissimilar metals will lower the coefficent of friction without the problems of little balls jamming together. The bushings could be pressed into an oversized hole and ground flush.

Blade shape...I like functional shapes and see spear-points or drop-points as the most useful. I don't use a Bali when hunting so a deep belly, clip-point doesn't do anything for me personally.
 
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