OKC bushcraft woodsman: 420 hc in a chopper ???

Revolverrodger

Revolverrodger

Joined
Jul 23, 2007
Messages
3,885
I have been using my OKC bushcraft woodsman in 420hc for a month now and it followed me on three trips already...
I have to say that I had my doubts on the toughness of 420hc and how it would perform i na chopper... But looking at data from Larrin 420hc is similar in composition to AEBL so I thought it might have a chance....

Here is the review :

 
Revolverrodger said:
I have been using my OKC bushcraft woodsman in 420hc for a month now and it followed me on three trips already...
I have to say that I had my doubts on the toughness of 420hc and how it would perform i na chopper... But looking at data from Larrin 420hc is similar in composition to AEBL so I thought it might have a chance....

Here is the review :

Click to expand...
you're review? if so ya got to talk louder, please. had my phone up full blast could barely hear ya speaking. had to turn down fast on batoning and chopping. so it's not a volume issue just you're talking too quietly, I believe. made it an up and down volume event to watch.

that a side. looks like it did well. no sharpening done between any task correct? you started with factory edge or did ya refine prior to videoing?

I'm a skeptic on the okc switch over to 420hc from the 5160. i like bucks 420hc fine for many tasks.....but on okc and this knife wasnt sure it would hold up as well as it did on these tasks. enjoyed it except for the real quiet talking, hard to hear. thanks for the video.
 
you forgot the 800 pound gorilla in the room, Buck, which still uses 420hc as their goto stainless with their special heat treatment (BOS)

quote from Buck's website:
"420HC Steel

This is Buck's standard blade material because it approaches the wear resistance of high carbon alloys while delivering the corrosion resistance of chromium stainless steels. Add our exclusive heat-treat process and you have a very user-friendly combination of superior corrosion resistance with excellent strength for wear resistance and durability. You also have a blade that is easy to resharpen. For best performance we harden to a Rockwell hardness of Rc 58.
"
 
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dirc said:
you forgot the 800 pound gorilla in the room, Buck, which still uses 420hc as their goto stainless with their special heat treatment (BOS)

quote from Buck's website:
"420HC Steel

This is Buck's standard blade material because it approaches the wear resistance of high carbon alloys while delivering the corrosion resistance of chromium stainless steels. Add our exclusive heat-treat process and you have a very user-friendly combination of superior corrosion resistance with excellent strength for wear resistance and durability. You also have a blade that is easy to resharpen. For best performance we harden to a Rockwell hardness of Rc 58.
"
Click to expand...

Buck makes amazing 420hc
I wish they used it in a chopper or machete
 
they've been using it in the iconic model 110 since 1993... a 25+ year run, but some of us steel nerds just don't listen
 
I have seen some cheaper buck models snap off under side load but not a crazy amount of force. If for a chopper they ran it a little softer it would perform great. The always interesting Cliff Stamp has a few vids on use of a 420 trailmaster knockoff that has done quite well as a thinned out dedicated chopper. With that info and Condor using 420 I would think it would be just fine but I do wish Ontario ran it a tad harder.
 
Tooj said that the carbon content of the 420hc they’re using for the bushcraft line was abou .31%—not hardenable to 58 Rc (buck’s 420hc is about .45% carbon). Which is really saying something about Dan Maragni’s HT, since it’s soft compared to Buck’s but still has decent edge retention. As the OP says it’s an amazing value for a stainless chopper(especially since it can still be found at incredibly discounted prices—for now). I still prefer the 5160 of the original, but I’m glad Ontario was able to keep the Woodsman alive, since it’s an incredibly useful(and beautiful) blade shape. Nice work on the handles, btw.
 
I'm not trying to make you drool, but if you like 420hc choppers, then this thing wins (imho)... SP-X
don't get me wrong, I love the wood handle of the woodsman, but this is the n'th degree ( 15 inch blade, 20 overall )
Ontario-Spec-Plus-X-Machete-Black-Kraton-satin-BHQ-81297-er.jpg
 
Revolverrodger said:
I have been using my OKC bushcraft woodsman in 420hc for a month now and it followed me on three trips already...
I have to say that I had my doubts on the toughness of 420hc and how it would perform i na chopper... But looking at data from Larrin 420hc is similar in composition to AEBL so I thought it might have a chance....

Here is the review :

Click to expand...

I'm sorry but all this knife and 420HC does is jog some old memories of the late 80'/early 90's and strolling through the flea market with my grandparents and seeing the tables of knives...

*53-55rc heat treatment? well...that's what $20 would get you on a full-tang knife.Ranging from EdgeMark to Frost to United Cutlery knives made in Taiwan to Pakistan.

*Ever notice how those flea market blades performed.You could get them real sharp but they dull quick and on impact their edge rolled over.Really soft blades...definitely 420 Series.

Either way no heat treatment can drain all the softness from 420HC so it performs very akin to 420J2 to me in some hard use.Easy to touch up on a rock if you've just been cutting but not with a beaten up/rolled over edge on a hiking trip.Yeah it's tough in the sense it won't chip but it's also very soft at the edge.It doesn't top the edge stability of 1095 and just about any stainless with higher alloying and even with a mediocre heat treatment... will hold up better.

How in the world can anyone justify this knife being $70-$80 when it's no better than a $20 fixed blade.Good lord that old Tarantula boot knife I have by United Cutlery is looking pretty valuable right now.Oh no wait...it was made in Taiwan so versus USA made it must not be worth squat....whatever:rolleyes:.
 
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thebrain said:
I have seen some cheaper buck models snap off under side load but not a crazy amount of force. If for a chopper they ran it a little softer it would perform great. The always interesting Cliff Stamp has a few vids on use of a 420 trailmaster knockoff that has done quite well as a thinned out dedicated chopper. With that info and Condor using 420 I would think it would be just fine but I do wish Ontario ran it a tad harder.
Click to expand...
I haven't seen that.
 
Makael said:
I haven't seen that.
Click to expand...

Go to YouTube and search on Buck Reaper Fail. You should find a video in which a guy is chopping and battoning with a Reaper and ends up with a quarter sized chunk out of the blade.

I blame the thin hollow grind. The Reaper would be... well, it would be a poor mans Punk if it had a proper flat Sabre grind. They should have put a flat grind on the Compadre/Sentry/I forget the name of the Walmart version too, IMO.

I get that Buck is a hunting company and that they see the hollow grind as something of a trademark feature. But IMO, they should have listened more closely to Ron Hood and they should offer a line of Hood inspired knives in US made 420HC (like the Reaper) that stay closer to Hood's correct design decisions.

Flat grind (more durable blade) and no swedged tips (for battoning).
 
pinnah said:
Go to YouTube and search on Buck Reaper Fail. You should find a video in which a guy is chopping and battoning with a Reaper and ends up with a quarter sized chunk out of the blade.

I blame the thin hollow grind. The Reaper would be... well, it would be a poor mans Punk if it had a proper flat Sabre grind. They should have put a flat grind on the Compadre/Sentry/I forget the name of the Walmart version too, IMO.

I get that Buck is a hunting company and that they see the hollow grind as something of a trademark feature. But IMO, they should have listened more closely to Ron Hood and they should offer a line of Hood inspired knives in US made 420HC (like the Reaper) that stay closer to Hood's correct design decisions.

Flat grind (more durable blade) and no swedged tips (for battoning).
Click to expand...

I agree, a flat grind would make a world of difference for hard using a buck. Bucks work great if you use something else to do the wood processing like an axe or saw. Honestly not sure how it would handle chopping but the reason I've started to like buck's bigger options is because they have a lot of edge but a low weight compared to some of the big OKC and busse kin knives. Plus they're affordable and look very nice. Having said that, I've been chasing down many of the 5160 bucks for woods use because I know 5160 can handle a beating vs high hardened 420hc, which I simply have limited experience with outside of hunting.

Back to the woodsman, I'm glad this performed well. It's a knife I have been considering for a while but with the change to 420 I decided that an sp-series with 5160 was a better choice. Might have to grab this one too. The nice thing about OKC is you can get a couple of them without going broke and not feel bad about beating the hell out of them.
 
bikerector said:
....Back to the woodsman, I'm glad this performed well. It's a knife I have been considering for a while but with the change to 420 I decided that an sp-series with 5160 was a better choice. Might have to grab this one too. The nice thing about OKC is you can get a couple of them without going broke and not feel bad about beating the hell out of them.
Click to expand...
When we choose to beat the hell out of a knife, you accept that the knife could break. Tis life.
 
All I can say is that the bushcraft woodsman in 420ss does what I need it to do.
Than again I don’t use it to cut cardboard etc...
With wood it doesn’t dull fast at all
 
bikerector said:
Back to the woodsman, I'm glad this performed well. It's a knife I have been considering for a while but with the change to 420 I decided that an sp-series with 5160 was a better choice. Might have to grab this one too. The nice thing about OKC is you can get a couple of them without going broke and not feel bad about beating the hell out of them.
Click to expand...

I've changed up my carry system for an experiment and am trying stashing different knives in different packs. This more about having a chance to play with different knives and less about needs but I digress.

Regardless, the other day I went out bird watching with my wife and pulled out an old Schrade-Walden H-15 that was riding in that pack in a leather sheath my son made for me. I saddened a bit but not shocked to find that wet New England weather had done what it does and the knife, which has been recently used, had some surface rust on it.

It's not a biggie. Easily managed. But IMO fine grained stainless like 420HC or Sandvik 12C27 perform well enough in terms of toughness and have the advantage of being able to be put away wet with little downside.
 
Frotier76 said:
I'm sorry but all this knife and 420HC does is jog some old memories of the late 80'/early 90's and strolling through the flea market with my grandparents and seeing the tables of knives...

*53-55rc heat treatment? well...that's what $20 would get you on a full-tang knife.Ranging from EdgeMark to Frost to United Cutlery knives made in Taiwan to Pakistan.

*Ever notice how those flea market blades performed.You could get them real sharp but they dull quick and on impact their edge rolled over.Really soft blades...definitely 420 Series.

Either way no heat treatment can drain all the softness from 420HC so it performs very akin to 420J2 to me in some hard use.Easy to touch up on a rock if you've just been cutting but not with a beaten up/rolled over edge on a hiking trip.Yeah it's tough in the sense it won't chip but it's also very soft at the edge.It doesn't top the edge stability of 1095 and just about any stainless with higher alloying and even with a mediocre heat treatment... will hold up better.

How in the world can anyone justify this knife being $70-$80 when it's no better than a $20 fixed blade.Good lord that old Tarantula boot knife I have by United Cutlery is looking pretty valuable right now.Oh no wait...it was made in Taiwan so versus USA made it must not be worth squat....whatever:rolleyes:.
Click to expand...

You're thinking of 420J, and also knives with poor heat treatment. I've got a 20" Condor Viking machete in 420HC that's been going strong for many years now, and it's been used on stuff up to full blown trees with frozen knots in it. No issues. Back when Condor had more QC issues they'd occasionally have a batch come through that hadn't been properly tempered and they'd be brittle, but when done as it's supposed to, it readily takes and holds an edge in that sort of context. It's not the steel to choose for high-abrasion cutting, but most outdoors cutting tasks are more likely to cause plastic deformation than abrasive wear, especially in the context of a chopper.
 
pinnah said:
I've changed up my carry system for an experiment and am trying stashing different knives in different packs. This more about having a chance to play with different knives and less about needs but I digress.

Regardless, the other day I went out bird watching with my wife and pulled out an old Schrade-Walden H-15 that was riding in that pack in a leather sheath my son made for me. I saddened a bit but not shocked to find that wet New England weather had done what it does and the knife, which has been recently used, had some surface rust on it.

It's not a biggie. Easily managed. But IMO fine grained stainless like 420HC or Sandvik 12C27 perform well enough in terms of toughness and have the advantage of being able to be put away wet with little downside.
Click to expand...

AEB-L, which is very similar for grain structure and all that but can achieve higher hardness, has been shown to be very tough as well and I'm very interested in getting a big knife in that steel. I think I'll have to go custom, assuming the steel is available in those sizes, but could be really interesting for a tough stainless knife.
 
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