Old boot knife... 440 Stainless?

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dpsk

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I bought an "Explorer Survival" camo boot knife way back in the 1985/86 time frame. For a 20 year old male, it was tacti-cool before tacti-cool was a thing. It's stamped "440 STAINLESS" on the base of the blade, with "21-039JAPAN" stamped below that. The knife is exactly the same as the one presented in this video starting at the 3:50 mark.


Mine's rather beat up, and probably isn't worth much, but it has a pretty darn tough blade that has held up well over the years. I used it for camping (not an effective bush crafting knife) and carried it in my boot when I was young. Heck, I used to practice knife throwing with it by slinging it at mature fur trees in the PNW (cause that's what you do with knives when you're 20). The tip is as sharp as it was when brand new.
So, I was wondering how "440 Stainless" steel stacks up as compared to other steels? I know Buck used to use 440C steel commonly before switching to 420HC, so I imagine 440 Stainless has got to be pretty good.
 
Most knives marked "440 stainless" are 440A steel which is one of the less expensive steels. How does the knife hold an edge after sharpening? 440A is generally easy to sharpen, but doesn't hold an edge long. That said, there are lots of pretty good knives made with 440A. We have just been spoiled with all of these new steels used today.

I buy Rough Ryder slip joints from time to time and they are made in China using 440A steel. They are just fine for me. But I honestly prefer 1095 steel.
 
dpsk said:
I bought an "Explorer Survival" camo boot knife way back in the 1985/86 time frame. For a 20 year old male, it was tacti-cool before tacti-cool was a thing. It's stamped "440 STAINLESS" on the base of the blade, with "21-039JAPAN" stamped below that. The knife is exactly the same as the one presented in this video starting at the 3:50 mark.


Mine's rather beat up, and probably isn't worth much, but it has a pretty darn tough blade that has held up well over the years. I used it for camping (not an effective bush crafting knife) and carried it in my boot when I was young. Heck, I used to practice knife throwing with it by slinging it at mature fur trees in the PNW (cause that's what you do with knives when you're 20). The tip is as sharp as it was when brand new.
So, I was wondering how "440 Stainless" steel stacks up as compared to other steels? I know Buck used to use 440C steel commonly before switching to 420HC, so I imagine 440 Stainless has got to be pretty good.
Click to expand...

There is 440A, 440B, and 440C
Similar compositions, except different levels of carbon. Carbon level increases from A to B and from B to C. The higher the carbon loading, the less stainless they become, but the longer they hold an edge in abrasive cutting. In such cutting 440C performs quite a bit better than 440A.

Knives marked "440 Stainless" are typically 440A.

Heat treated to a 58-59. 440A will hold an edge a bit better than Buck 420HC, but not as well as their 440C. Schrade-US used 440A as their "Schrade+" stainless until the late 90's and the knives performed pretty well because the steel was hardened to 58-59.

440A gets a bad rap because so many companies heat treated it to a 54-55 hardness, because it is quite a bit less expensive to do so.
 
knarfeng said:
440A gets a bad rap because so many companies heat treated it to a 54-55 hardness, because it is quite a bit less expensive to do so.
Click to expand...
I've got a couple 80's Japanese imports in " 440 stainless " around somewhere that are a little harder to sharpen than 420hc from Buck.
They're not exactly practical designs to carry so I don't know how the edge holding is, but I'd definitely have more confidence of well treated Japanese 440a than I would modern Chinese 440A.
 
Where in the PNW are you?

I recall throwing this very knife back in my youth. Fun as hell.

Then I got a Gerber MK II and actually took care of it. Wish I had BOTH those knives back now.

The ol' 440A wasn't much for staying sharp, but man it can take a beating.
 
Years ago when Buck used 440C, I wouldn't buy one of their knives. They were extremely hard to sharpen and there weren't many diamond stones as we have today. I was limited to a hard Arkansas stone which would sharpen these knives just very slowly and usually beyond my patience level.
 
Velitrius said:
Where in the PNW are you?

I recall throwing this very knife back in my youth. Fun as hell.

Then I got a Gerber MK II and actually took care of it. Wish I had BOTH those knives back now.

The ol' 440A wasn't much for staying sharp, but man it can take a beating.
Click to expand...

I grew up in Vancouver, WA (not to be confused with BC). I live SE of Denver, CO now.

Although I don't use it, I'm glad I still have that old thing.
 
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knarfeng said:
There is 440A, 440B, and 440C
Similar compositions, except different levels of carbon. Carbon level increases from A to B and from B to C. The higher the carbon loading, the less stainless they become, but the longer they hold an edge in abrasive cutting. In such cutting 440C performs quite a bit better than 440A.

Knives marked "440 Stainless" are typically 440A.

Heat treated to a 58-59. 440A will hold an edge a bit better than Buck 420HC, but not as well as their 440C. Schrade-US used 440A as their "Schrade+" stainless until the late 90's and the knives performed pretty well because the steel was hardened to 58-59.

440A gets a bad rap because so many companies heat treated it to a 54-55 hardness, because it is quite a bit less expensive to do so.
Click to expand...


Wow - very detailed answer. Thanks!!!
 
Hickory n steel said:
I've got a couple 80's Japanese imports in " 440 stainless " around somewhere that are a little harder to sharpen than 420hc from Buck.
They're not exactly practical designs to carry so I don't know how the edge holding is, but I'd definitely have more confidence of well treated Japanese 440a than I would modern Chinese 440A.
Click to expand...

I don'y use that knife for anything now, but I plan on keeping it. Seems like a bit of a collectible now. ...and I agree, I'm rather leery of any Chinese steel.
 
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22-rimfire said:
Most knives marked "440 stainless" are 440A steel which is one of the less expensive steels. How does the knife hold an edge after sharpening? 440A is generally easy to sharpen, but doesn't hold an edge long. That said, there are lots of pretty good knives made with 440A. We have just been spoiled with all of these new steels used today.

I buy Rough Ryder slip joints from time to time and they are made in China using 440A steel. They are just fine for me. But I honestly prefer 1095 steel.
Click to expand...

I haven't sharpened that knife at all. I ended up buying different knives for more specific purposes, and that old boot knife found it's way into the bottom of my tool box. Resided there for years until I stumbled upon that video I linked to. That's when I dug it out for old times sake.
 
Agreed, 440A will hold a longer edge than 420, if both are taken to 57-58rc.. Buck's old knives made using 440C does not need diamond to sharpen them. In the early 60's Buck sold a SiC stone that works very well for that steel. Get a more coarse grit version of that SiC stone and finish off on that 400 grit one and it works. Yes, the Arkansas was not the right stone to attempt that steel with. DM
 
440C can be trying to sharpen regardless. I was not familiar with a Buck SiC stone back in those days. My regular Corundum bench stone didn't handle it well as I recall. Life didn't revolve around knives back then in terms of hobby interest. I was interested, but not to the point of spending money.

I gave Buck one shot at my business back then. I simply avoided the whole issue and didn't buy Buck knives. Case and Schrade got my business mostly. Only in recent times (last 5 years or so) have I acquired a Buck branded knife. I now have a couple 110's, a Cabela's 192, and last years Buck 301 forum knife. I got a stag Damascus 110 back in the early 90's. It has never been used or sharpened.

I have a couple boot knives (Gerber and Kershaw) that I played around with. Not my thing.
 
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As other threads have stated, not all steel with the same name (440c, 420hc, s30v) are identical. The heat treatment makes a huge difference.

For example, Bucks 420hc is the best I've seen, thanks to Mr. Bos and his crew.

Like others said in this thread, it's probably 440a and lower then ideal HR.

It's still a great reminder of the 80s. I wish I still had my hollowed handled rambo type fixed blade (with the compass) from the early 80s. I pretended to kill a lot of bad people with that knife.
 
Knives made in Japan for US importers in the 1970s-90s and marked 440 Stainless were practically all (if not all) Aus6/6A/A6 or in some cases Aus8/8A/A8. The US importers wanted to use a description more familiar to the US market/buyers so they went with the US standard. With Aichi Steel Co. located quite close to Seki City, it wouldn't make much economic sense to ship 440 steels from the US.
Both SOG and Browning have openly disclosed this practice. It's a sure bet that the Gutman group which includes Explorer, falls in the same category. While it may not have been technically accurate, it was a vast improvement over the "surgical steel" labeling practice.
 
I have a small Explorer knife from the 80s, it holds an edge fairly well, the Valor boot knife from the same era seems soft.
 
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