Old companies that are introducing newer (super)steels

JTR357

JTR357

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Case has been using S35VN for a while & now I see they have some in 20CV. BUCK has been using newer steels also. This makes me happy that they are upgrading while still holding their traditional values. How do you feel about your traditional knife companies introducing new & improved steels? I have a couple of traditional Case's with S35VN & they are awesome.
 
Bought a sweet looking case #18 with S35VN and chipped the blade on the sheepsfoot almost instantly. I want to say it was a staple or something like that. Could be a fluke but it turned me off. Beautiful knife though. Buffalo horn and stonewashed blades.

I'll stick with trusharp. I've been beating the crap out of a sowbelly for months and it still looks perfect.

That might be a tradeoff though.... Harder steels are going to chip. Guess I'm just used to the regular stuff.
 
s'long as they keep offering the old steels, I might be able to afford one of their knives?
The new steels seem to have a premium price attached.

The old steels somehow still manage to cut/slice/dice/cube what I need to.
 
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I have a couple of Bucks & Trestle Pines with newer/super steels. I like having the options & enjoy them. The down sides are they usually cost more & are more difficult to sharpen being so hard. I don't really need them though, I still favor a quality "regular" carbon or stainless. But like I said options are good 👍
 
I love modern steels, so I am delighted by my Buck 112 in Magnacut.

There are four main ways for a knife to get dull (and how they rate on each of these is quantifiable):
1. The edge can abrade away. This is countered by a steel with higher wear resistance.
2. The edge can chip. This is countered by a steel with higher toughness.
3. The edge can roll. This is countered by a steel with higher hardness.
4. The edge can corrode away. This is countered by a steel with higher corrosion resistance.

Normally, improving one or two of these means compromising the others, so part of the art of knife design is picking steels with the right balance and tradeoffs for what that knife is intended to do.

But Magnacut beats something like 1095 in every single one of those categories. There is no tradeoff for switching from 1095 to Magnacut. I prefer traditional knives for both functionality and aesthetic reasons, but they are still tools I use, and I vastly prefer better steels when I can get them.
 
I used to think it’d be nice to get some more modern steels out of the more traditional companies, but honestly these days I don’t care as much. Is it neat? Sure, but I guess I have come to terms with the fact I don’t always need that kind of performance.
 
RickHuf said:
Bought a sweet looking case #18 with S35VN and chipped the blade on the sheepsfoot almost instantly. I want to say it was a staple or something like that. Could be a fluke but it turned me off. Beautiful knife though. Buffalo horn and stonewashed blades.

I'll stick with trusharp. I've been beating the crap out of a sowbelly for months and it still looks perfect.

That might be a tradeoff though.... Harder steels are going to chip. Guess I'm just used to the regular stuff.
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I prefer Cases' CV, but it's nice that they're offering different steels now.
 
I love the premium steels, but for the prices they charge for the upgrade, the less expensive steels are often fine for me, and preferred since price matters.

Still regret selling my 5160 buck 119. That was a keeper. And I do wish case would use more CV lately.
 
bikerector said:
I love the premium steels, but for the prices they charge for the upgrade, the less expensive steels are often fine for me, and preferred since price matters.

Still regret selling my 5160 buck 119. That was a keeper. And I do wish case would use more CV lately.
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Case is having sourcing problems, as I understand it, and is content to move to 1095.
 
I like seeing the option. I prefer stainless steel and offering the higher performance steels is a smart business decision. As an example, Boker is using S35VN and AEB-L amongst others. The Italian manufacturers are offering M390.
 
Generally, if I get a traditional knife I prefer it in a relatively traditional steel. 440, 1095, CV, maybe D2, maybe CPM154, etc. Something cheap and simple.

I know how to sharpen a knife and I enjoy doing it. I'd rather not pay an extra 50 bucks just to save a few minutes every month sharpening/honing/stropping.

One of my gripes about Bark River, the fancy steels just drive the price up. I am perfectly happy with A-2 or 1095. But I don't really NEED Magnacut on a knife I'm gonna use to skin a deer a few times a year, or breast out some ducks. I'd happily just use a boring steel and strop/hone it between uses. It just takes a 150 to 200 dollar knive and makes it a 300 dollar knife, at least that's how I picture it in my mind. Maybe the steel doesn't make that much of a price difference, but It definitely makes some difference.

A properly maintained edge doesnt get "dull" anyways, and strops/hones are cheap. 5-10 swipes/15 seconds on a ceramic hone and my traditionals are back to shaving sharp. Not to mention 440, CV, 1095, etc is all very easy to sharpen.

I'm not going out in the bush for a week without a sharpener, I'm not going on "Alone", so for me it just doesn't matter. I've also seen the cheap steels chip less than some of the fancier ones.
 
bikerector said:
I do wish case would use more CV lately.
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EngrSorenson said:
Case is having sourcing problems, as I understand it, and is content to move to 1095.
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"CV" was/is 1095 modified with a small amount of chromium and vandium added; not enough of either to make it stainless though. I believe Case was the only company to use that recepy; like Buck was the only company to use 425M in the 1980's.

"CS" is "normal" 1095.

Perhaps like Buck's experience with their 425M decades earlier, "CV" became too expensive to manufacture?

Buck switched from 425M to standard 420HC for their standard blade steel, which performance wise was/is pretty much equivalent to their proprietary steel, and at a much lower cost.

(I wish Buck offered a NOT miror polished, non-stainless blade variation for the standard production 300 and 100 series knives ... at the same or slightly lower price point.
AFFIRMAITVE, SIR!!!! I am aware that will "never" happen ... at least not during my "lifetime". 🙄)

Standard 1095 lacks CV's chromium and vandium carbides, of course, but the effective performance is pretty much the same.

Lets be honest. If CV had significantly better performance than standard 1095, other companies would have used it instead of standard 1095.

CASE offers fewer patterns with CV/CS blades.

As far as I know, ALL of their patterns can be had with "True Sharp" 420HC blades. Only a limited number have a CV/CS option.

If not "in the vault" 🙄 and is in production, is the "Copperhead", and/or their 2 blade slipjoint folding hunter, and/or single blade clasp knife folding hunter, and/or the "Shark"(?) lock back, (their entry in/for the Buck 110/112 market), and/or Moose, the large or small Swell Center/Coke Bottle, and other camping/fishing/hiking/work/"heavy duty" outdoor folding knives available with carbon steel blades?
Does Case currently produce a traditional non folding "hunting"/"sheath" knife?
If they do, is it stainless only?

"When"/"IF" Case takes a pattern "out of the vault" such as the standard Barlow is CV/CS an option?
(How many decades has it been since Case produced a 5" closed Daddy Barlow? 4? 5?
D'yah "think" Mr. Daddy Barlow will ever be produced by Case again?)

A couple years ago when the small swell center Jack was "taken out of the vault" and produced for a year, "True Sharp" was the only blade option.

When the standard Barlow; single or twin blade was last "taken out of the vault" ... what? 5 or 6 years ago? ... Were any not fitted with stainless blades?

When people say:
"I wish Case would use more CV/CS/carbon steel ..."

I take it as:
"I wish Case would offer more patterns with not stainless carbon steel blades."
 
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Tyson A Wright said:
I love modern steels, so I am delighted by my Buck 112 in Magnacut.

There are four main ways for a knife to get dull (and how they rate on each of these is quantifiable):
1. The edge can abrade away. This is countered by a steel with higher wear resistance.
2. The edge can chip. This is countered by a steel with higher toughness.
3. The edge can roll. This is countered by a steel with higher hardness.
4. The edge can corrode away. This is countered by a steel with higher corrosion resistance.

Normally, improving one or two of these means compromising the others, so part of the art of knife design is picking steels with the right balance and tradeoffs for what that knife is intended to do.

But Magnacut beats something like 1095 in every single one of those categories. There is no tradeoff for switching from 1095 to Magnacut. I prefer traditional knives for both functionality and aesthetic reasons, but they are still tools I use, and I vastly prefer better steels when I can get them.
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There is a tradeoff, the price difference is significant. Certainly a factor (to me at least!)

God save me if GEC starts using Magnacut, I'll be on the streets!
 
Can you imagine a discussion back in the 19th century wherein the higher-ups at the various renowned cutlery concerns worried that if they used the latest and greatest steel available, they would risk losing market share by angering loyal customers who preferred the older, inferior material?

(As I recall, a lot of the old traditional ads in my catalogs raved about their pushing the envelope with their secret steel and its heat treat.)

Gotta love us Luddites. ☺️
 
Blues said:
(As I recall, a lot of the old traditional ads in my catalogs raved about their pushing the envelope with their secret steel and its heat treat.)
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Marketing as old as time- make a subtle change; drum up the impact.
Case was always particularly funny in that they had two 'proprietary' steels, their Surgical Stainless and their Chrome Vanadium, but they basically are the same compared to other advancements in knife steel.
 
I don't think I have one Case knife that's in SS. I always go for the CS/CV or Damascus. Their stainless is just too soft for my preferences. The S35VN works well though.
 
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