Old Delica lockup was great, why do I hear that new Delica IVs don't have it?

peacefuljeffrey

peacefuljeffrey

Joined
Feb 24, 2001
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I've been EDCing one of my old Delicas (plastic clip era). When listening to various knife clicks (to reply in a different thread about knives that sound satisfying) I listened to the click of this Delica locking open and realized that it is really a solid-locking knife. No play in any direction.

Now, I've been reading some people report that their Delica IVs suffer from some vertical blade play; others come back and tell them that it's endemic to lockback knives, and must be accepted. Then I wonder, if it is just part of lockback knives to have some vertical blade play, why is it that none of my pre-IV Delicas do?

Any thoughts?

-Jeffrey
 
I have no blade play in my delica 4. 80% of my lockback spyders lock up great. Generally the ones that don't have been used a lot. Nothing a quite tightening of the pivot wont fix.

As far as blade play been endemic in lock backs i dont buy that, if the locks been well designed it will allow for future wear and tear.
 
There is not even a hint of blade play in my new delica 4, the lock up feels extremely solid.
 
Cool -- glad to hear it.
It's just that some people responded to the complaints of others about vertical blade play by saying, "In order for a lock-back to work at all, there has to be some vertical blade play!"

Not being sure whether that is true or not, I became somewhat put-off of lockbacks for a time, kinda paranoid that to get a lock-back would be to get a knife certain to have play. I guess that if a knife is built to the right tolerances, it won't have to have vertical blade play just to make the lock able to function.

-Jeffrey
 
My SS D4 is really soilid as is the FRN D4 I'm trying out at the moment. It's possible the blade play could be from a pivot screw in need of a simple adjustment.
 
D3, E4, Wal Mart Native, Dragonfly (all FRN) and Micarta Dyad Jr. - all have vertical blade play. BUT... it is not play between the blade and the lockbar. The two pieces move together on all mine. What I am calling "vertical play" is most likely caused by clearance between pivot hole and pivot pin. That won't be corrected by any simple adjustment. For the record, my E4 is the worst of the lot. Of course, I have noticed the same thing, in differing degrees, on almost every folder I have used for 30 years, locking or not. If it really bothered me, I'd get rid of all of them and carry fixed blades.:rolleyes:
 
Yablanowitz,
I hear ya. I guess that because a pin has to fit perfectly into a blade pivot hole without being too tight, there is always potential for there to be play in that area.

It's just, didn't I read in some thread on Bladeforums that some were claiming that there had to be blade play in order for a lockback setup to work at all?

-Jeffrey
 
Sal stated a while back that the lockback design with greatest strength and reliability had some (extremely small) inherent vertical play. My old frn clip endura has this, I'd say roughly 1/64-1/100 of an inch, as does my dragonfly (almost imperceptible but it's there).
 
Unless you use roller bearings in your pivot, and taper fit the lockbar into the tang notch, there will be some play. It may not be noticeable, it may not be measurable, but it will be there. If there is no clearance between the pivot pin and the pivot hole, how will the blade move? The trick is to get enough clearance to let the blade move properly, without getting enough for the slack to call attention to itself. Not an easy task, especially since all the dimensions will change with temperature :rolleyes: Overall, I think Spyderco does this as well as any, and better than most.:cool:
 
In my experience, this endemic vertical blade play is only noticeable when you push down hard on the edge on a cutting board for example. In 95% of daily cutting and general playing around :D , the blade play is unnoticeable. At least in my knives.

Wouter
 
I'm feeling more confidence in them now, thanks everyone.

So, a few final questions.

Those who have older and new Delicas, is there any indication that the lockback lockup is any different for the IVs as opposed to the older models? If I got a IV, I should expect it to feel just as non-wobbly as my current old Delicas? I've been itching for one because to me, the ONLY bad thing about older Delicas is the fact that they can't be disassembled. (I hate rivets; I never trust them.)

I'd like to hear from owners of both types, whether they feel their new Delicas are no more susceptible to noticeable blade play than their old ones are. Thanks!


-Jeffrey
 
I have several D3s and I have a D4 (the new D4 is one great knife design IMHO). All of them have perfect lockup. My Natives have some slight vertical play. I only notice it when I need to make a precise cut doing my outdoor landscaping or when I whittle then I notice the kerchunk feeling of the lock going up and down.
 
My Native, the D4 and E4 from the passaround, and my Chinook all have noticeable vertical play, in a way that neither my ancient integral-clip Endura nor several other lockbacks I own - Pacific Cutlery, Katz, Schrade - do. In Sal's defense, my SOG and Irish Imperial lockbacks have just about as much vertical play as my new Spydies do.

I do think they're safe locks. But it's annoying. I'm at the point where I don't want to buy a new Spydie lockback unless I can either feel it first, or have someone I trust feel it for me.

However, we are talking about my very small sample here, this may not be representative. I DO think it is a problem for Spyerco, at LEAST in perception if nothing else.

And no, I'm not talking about bearing down hard. I mean rest the tip on something firm, and wiggle your wrist. On my old Endura, you can tell that it's a folder - there's a hint of movement there - but it feels solid. With the D4, E4, Native and Chinook, it's movement you can see, feel, and actually hear. In the long bladed ones, I'm getting something like 3-4mm of vertical wiggle out of the tip.

It does not make me think the lock is in any way unsafe. But it does not make me happy.
 
Mr Blonde said:
In my experience, this endemic vertical blade play is only noticeable when you push down hard on the edge on a cutting board for example. In 95% of daily cutting and general playing around :D , the blade play is unnoticeable. At least in my knives.

Wouter
Click to expand...

That's the only way I notice it in any of my 3 Spydies. I never noticed it before I really pushed hard with my Calypso Jr. In normal cutting all of mine are rock solid.

Guy
 
Agreed - my D3 has the slightest hint of up/down when I put a lot of pressure on it for a cut, but it's barely detectable and it definitely hasn't failed in any way. Considering I've had my D3 about a year and used it a bunch, not hard, but used a lot, it's still locking up like the day I got it. I have 4 D4's - 3 of them lock up just fine, no movement. The other one is on a "trip" right now, so until I get it back....:) I also have two Endura 3's, they both move every so slightly if you exert pressure with the tip on something, but again, it's not really noticeable either. One of the E3's is used as a beater - pretty remarkable how well it's held up:)

- gord
 
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