Old(er) Hogs Help

neverforget

neverforget

Joined
Aug 30, 2010
Messages
81
Ok you older hogs with knowledge I need some help here. I’ve been kicking around the forum for a while, but recently picked up a basic 9 & 7; I love the asym edge. While searching the archive area I’ve read folks saying there’s magic in the m-infi and the asym edge. Is it both?? Is it the asym edge?? Is it m-infi?? Guys out there say its Jerry’s story to tell. Well I’m seeking some help here, have some holiday spirit would ya :)

See I have this issue, which seems like a lot of hogs here have. Seen on the sales thread last night a B-11 Asym edge, ground by the Boss himself. I did try to fight it, but when I checked this morning it was still available. Yeah you know what happened next!! I just knew I’d kick myself if I didn’t jump on it, these don’t come around very often. But I’m telling ya guys the asym edge rules IMO, the 9er & 7 rock!! I can’t imagine the b-11 being anything but better. Seen some vids on the 11, chips just fly everywhere. It takes a minute to sharpen/touch it back up!! A buddy of mine picked up a b-11 V edge, I got to play with it for a little bit, really nice!! I do a lot of hiking, so “in my mind” the b-11 is justifiable :thumbup: In cold weather up here in the north east you can’t beat the res-c handles!!

So come on hogs/jerry someone let me in on the information, my enquiring mind needs to know. :)


May all have a joyful and blessed holiday, and happy new year.
 
I love the Asym edge!!!
The 5,7, & 9 kick serious arse!!! The 11 just wasn't for me though.
The Straight handles I've played with with Asym edges kick arse too!!!
Good luck with your search!! ;)
 
I love the basics. Basic 9 was king til Jerry Raised the bar with 11 and then the 10. Asym edge is also excellent on medium to large blades IMO. Not so much on small ones.

M-INFI is a little softer which may be why Cliff stamps b-7 survived as long as it did???

If you like your two then the asym 11 will be loved and cherished even more so. Its amazing chopper IMO pound for pound best chopper to come from shop:thumbup:

There are older Hogs than I that may chime in. THese guys are legends and love their basics- Jimmy Jones, PeterPWHS, and Will York will be along shortly to correct anything I missed
 
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Cliffs 7 was the "little engine that could".

That knife saw hell and came back for more!!!!
 
The difference between M-Infi and Infi is to do with the infusion of a "gas" into the metallurgical "formula" of Infi ... or so previous posts have indicated ... if you search long enough the past posts are there to be found. Ofcourse you would need to have a membership enablng the search engine to be used. The reason why it is Jerry's tale to tell is that the difference is one not easily understood by the likes of myself and probably a few others too ... I simply don't know what the infusion of this particular gas does.

As to M-Infi being softer than Infi ... that does'nt appear to be the case with my experience of the two ... at least not in the large blades. Some Infi was done at a higher Rockwell hardness in the smaller ones and also in the first of the Straight Handled blades ... this may well be where the comparison of hardness eminates from ... by comparison of the original SHBM's and the Basic series.However, now all Infi is the same in the larger blades as the Basic's ... around Rc 58-59. The benefit of this I do understand ... it assists with avoiding chipping ... the edge is more likely to roll than chip ... which is good news on a hard use knife as this assists in re-sharpening the blade.

The ASM edge also adds to this by giving for a right handed user ... the ability to chop wood at 45 degrees so that the edge is able to bite deeply into the grain ... with the benefit of a lot of Infi on the convex side of the blade assisting with prevention of the edge rolling to the right from impact. This is noticeable compared to a convex grind or straight V grind if they are taken a little bit too shallow for a very sharp cutting edge. Infact the design tends to lend itself to a left handed side roll ... so the edge rolls more to the side where the flat grind secondary bevel 11 degree edge is. This means that a few strokes with a ceramic rod on that side straighten it out and restore the edge. This means the edge sharpens much quicker than a V grind or convex grind which need work on both sides to centralise the pinnacle ... it also stays "central" longer with right handed use and for these reasons I prefer it.

In the field this "benefit" is very easy to see ... you can use the knife a lot and a few quick strokes with a cermaic rod keeps you on track. Compare that to using a leather paddle loaded with compound for a convex edge ... and how vulnerable the leather paddle is to rain and mud etc ... and you can see why it is popular with the likes of myself where we live in a wet muddy climate.

The "gas" thing though is beyond me ... I can honestly say I have worked with Infi for hours on end and the same with M-Infi ... chopping down trees and limbing them and sectioning them and then splitting the sections by batoning for fire wood ... large trees and a days work ... 8 hours comfortably ... and I can tell NO difference between M-Infi and Infi in this role. The only difference is in the weight of the knife and the speed the task is done.

If you have a Basic 9 which is M-Infi and a Basic 11 which is Infi and both have an ASM edge and you sharpen them the same ... I suspect the same will be true for you ...

I know Infi is cyrogenically cooled to relieve stress ... this gas is related to a "cold" cyrogenic treatment I suspect and may assist in the relief of stress ... but if the heat treatment is done right elsewhere ... and Jerry seems to have this "off pat" ... you won't see any "stress" issues ... perhaps more so when he was on his own and making knives in limited numbers as when the first Basics were done because "quality control" was easier to implement in small volume making ... but this is just a guess ... that the infusion of the gas was to assist in being able to make hard use knives in higher numbers ... but who knows? This is why it is Jerry's tale to tell ... :thumbup:


P.S. The gas used is said to be "Nitrogen" ... a guy who is very scientific used a spectrometer ?? to check this and Jerry confirmed it ... or so legend has it ... there is no secret here ... but it does rely on my memory and that may well be at fault :) I am casting back waayyy too long ago to be sure ....:D
 
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I would go for it :)
 
Gravel, I have read Cliff's write-ups on what he was able to do with the 7. The 7 seems to be one tough you know what :)

Knife hunter, thanks. Yeah I'm really liking the basic line, the handle just fits. Batoning/chopping, their just a work horse!

stjones, thanks for your input. What didn't you like about the 11?? Curious.

Peter, thanks much for the information. I do and will continue to sharpen the edge the correct which I got from here, and have seen your ID many times while searching the archives. Using the b-9 when batoning the wood just gives way, even threw multiple knots; I'm very impressed. I hope I continue to be impressed!
 
At 1/4" blade thickness and weighing 17.5 oz with Resiprene-C handle, the Basic 11 is lighter and as strong as anything in the large chopper range, great forward balance for efficient chopping/batonning but not so long and/or heavy that carry is awkward. The Basics have the best of all Busse ergonomics IMO plus insulation from cold/vibration/electrical shock. The asymmetrical edge grind is one of the strongest, longest-lasting and most efficient cutting edge geometries and the easiest to sharpen in the field, and given that the B11 is INFI there are no compromises, whether technical, demonstrable or imagined. No magic—just epic design. Well, maybe a little magic…

If you don’t have a Basic 11, getting one with an asymmetrical edge is something you should not hesitate to do. I hope you’ll be enjoying it soon--if you get it, I know you will be.

No regrets.

Adding Basic 9 pics for fun:
 
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All - Will, OOO yeah, signed sealed and soon to be delivered. If the B11 out performs the B9 I think I'll have many years of fun/enjoyment with all of the basics I have. The B9 surprises me each time I use it, I put in so much less effort into every task I have used it for so far. Before getting my first basic "b9" I had read many archive threads, statements from folks like yourself helped me tremendously in making the decision in the first place. :thumbup:
 
You'll be glad you added an asym B11 to your Basic collection--great, great choice. :thumbup:

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The basic 9 has been in my "core" users since I got years ago. Not even a consideration to let it go!
 
Will, I've read about those satin finished B11's around but never seen one, damn fine looking in satin :)

Gravel, that's good to know :thumbup:
 
neverforget said:
stjones, thanks for your input. What didn't you like about the 11?? Curious.
Click to expand...

Honestly, aesthetics. I love the look of all the original Basic line but wasn't happy with the straight spine of the 11. I suppose I could have ground a swedge and it would have looked good but the 9 works better for me.
My orginal Basic line will NEVER leave me!!
 
jones, cool, funny I like the straight spine, to each his own. I just picked a B7 up about 3 days ago, thought I was done for a while, yeah I think I read about people trying that before :) Man the 7 is a little monster, so far I'm liking it!
 
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One day I might pick up a Basic 7 too ... that would make a nice set of the 5, 7, 9, and 11.

The Basic 11 will do all you ever need on the chopping front ... personally I think you have to go to a NMFBM or a Zilla to see any difference ... the FBM and the BWM LE that I have are heavier but don't bite deeper ... the forward balance accounts for that ...

There are'nt many knives left in the Busse line up which I have'nt tried or feel that they would improve upon what I already use ... one that would do so is an Asm Basic 9 inch parang ... the extra weight in the front would probably bring it up to B11 or better ... but compact enough to tuck it round the back for belt carry on a diagonal draw so your hands are free to move/swing when running without it sticking out too far to catch them. It also avoids the banging and flapping you get from a knife carried vertically.

I will say though that one of the reasons I like the Basic 9 so much is that you can pull it out and put it back quickly without undoing straps. Recurves tend to need a strap at the top end and an open spine sheath. This makes for a rapid draw being slower with one hand. The Basic 9 on my webbing is held by Kydex and I can draw it very fast if I need to.

I got Jeff at Rainwalker creations to do me a leather sheath which enables the same to be done for my NTTKZ ... the sheath he did is amazing but it took him ages to do and the leather "resistance" retention must have been a work of art because whilst I cannot see what he has done he managed to work with the choil hole and use that to give enough resistance by dropping into a slot to enable the khukri to be carried in a straight insert type sheath which tucks nicely into my belt but I can hold the knife upside down and it does'nt drop out. Not to mention a piggy back kydex sheath for the leather sheath if I wanted to move the khukri to my Bergan for easier carry as the khukri can dig into your back with a heavy Bergan on top of it. The Basic 9 is a lot better by being smaller on the handle and can stay put. It is however a bit harder to draw when carrying the Bergan.
 
Hey Peter, here in the northeast there's a lot of big hard wood. I really wouldn't want to go much smaller that a size like a b-7. The b-9 which I have had only for about a month now is really nice, great size, forward weight. We have had nice dang weather so far. The last week I was using the 9, about 30 degrees my hand felt warm, no gloves, I'm digging the res-c! The asym goes through the wood for me with ease, I'm very impressed. As I said before I thought I was finished for a while until I saw the b-11 asym up for grabs in the sale forum. It was available all night long, couldn't control myself anymore LMAO. Here is a quick shot of some of the wood I was batoning, the 9er goes right through knots and keeps going. She is my go to blade!
 
Wonderful, your explanation below on asym edge and the M infi are the best and easiest to understand that I can remember. I knew you would know:thumbup:

It was kinda like a light bulb coming on, and I could visually see your description. Even though I have used em for years reading this made me understand it much better:cool:

Also, it made me understand why I have not liked the asym edge on my smaller knives cause example: I was cleaning dear and cutting tenderloins from back and spine. THe right side tenderloin cutting down from head to tail would always cut perfectly right up next to the spine, but on the left tenderloin I would always lose a little bit of meat due to the convex edge cutting away from the spine. Now I understand that I could have improvised, adapted and overcame this by simply cutting from the bottom up on the left side thus allowing the flat side of edge to run directly along the spine:thumbup:

knife hunter said:
M-INFI is a little softer which may be why Cliff stamps b-7 survived as long as it did???
Click to expand...

My statement about softer was more of a question as I couldnt recall the difference of M-INFI and todays INFI and was also asking if its why it survived Cliff's brutallity.

So, actually its all about the gas;):D THat I think I can remember. M-INFI =no nitrogen and INFI has nitrogen

PeterPHWS said:
The difference between M-Infi and Infi is to do with the infusion of a "gas" into the metallurgical "formula" of Infi ... or so previous posts have indicated ... if you search long enough the past posts are there to be found. Ofcourse you would need to have a membership enablng the search engine to be used. The reason why it is Jerry's tale to tell is that the difference is one not easily understood by the likes of myself and probably a few others too ... I simply don't know what the infusion of this particular gas does.

As to M-Infi being softer than Infi ... that does'nt appear to be the case with my experience of the two ... at least not in the large blades. Some Infi was done at a higher Rockwell hardness in the smaller ones and also in the first of the Straight Handled blades ... this may well be where the comparison of hardness eminates from ... by comparison of the original SHBM's and the Basic series.However, now all Infi is the same in the larger blades as the Basic's ... around Rc 58-59. The benefit of this I do understand ... it assists with avoiding chipping ... the edge is more likely to roll than chip ... which is good news on a hard use knife as this assists in re-sharpening the blade.

The ASM edge also adds to this by giving for a right handed user ... the ability to chop wood at 45 degrees so that the edge is able to bite deeply into the grain ... with the benefit of a lot of Infi on the convex side of the blade assisting with prevention of the edge rolling to the right from impact. This is noticeable compared to a convex grind or straight V grind if they are taken a little bit too shallow for a very sharp cutting edge. Infact the design tends to lend itself to a left handed side roll ... so the edge rolls more to the side where the flat grind secondary bevel 11 degree edge is. This means that a few strokes with a ceramic rod on that side straighten it out and restore the edge. This means the edge sharpens much quicker than a V grind or convex grind which need work on both sides to centralise the pinnacle ... it also stays "central" longer with right handed use and for these reasons I prefer it.

In the field this "benefit" is very easy to see ... you can use the knife a lot and a few quick strokes with a cermaic rod keeps you on track. Compare that to using a leather paddle loaded with compound for a convex edge ... and how vulnerable the leather paddle is to rain and mud etc ... and you can see why it is popular with the likes of myself where we live in a wet muddy climate.

The "gas" thing though is beyond me ... I can honestly say I have worked with Infi for hours on end and the same with M-Infi ... chopping down trees and limbing them and sectioning them and then splitting the sections by batoning for fire wood ... large trees and a days work ... 8 hours comfortably ... and I can tell NO difference between M-Infi and Infi in this role. The only difference is in the weight of the knife and the speed the task is done.

If you have a Basic 9 which is M-Infi and a Basic 11 which is Infi and both have an ASM edge and you sharpen them the same ... I suspect the same will be true for you ...

I know Infi is cyrogenically cooled to relieve stress ... this gas is related to a "cold" cyrogenic treatment I suspect and may assist in the relief of stress ... but if the heat treatment is done right elsewhere ... and Jerry seems to have this "off pat" ... you won't see any "stress" issues ... perhaps more so when he was on his own and making knives in limited numbers as when the first Basics were done because "quality control" was easier to implement in small volume making ... but this is just a guess ... that the infusion of the gas was to assist in being able to make hard use knives in higher numbers ... but who knows? This is why it is Jerry's tale to tell ... :thumbup:


P.S. The gas used is said to be "Nitrogen" ... a guy who is very scientific used a spectrometer ?? to check this and Jerry confirmed it ... or so legend has it ... there is no secret here ... but it does rely on my memory and that may well be at fault :) I am casting back waayyy too long ago to be sure ....:D
Click to expand...
 
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Hey Garth, my bad i didn't notice your post. That's cool!! Didn't realize folks liked them so much, but then again it was out here for a long time before I snatched it up, sweet !!!
 
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