Old Randall? please help...

Silly Rabbit

Silly Rabbit

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Joined
Jun 9, 2010
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799
Here is one that is driving me up the wall

Any help is appreciated

no real info other than pictures, cannot find any stamps anywhere (looked up and down sheath (including snap) and blade) though blade is rough and may have been ground/wore away

Sheath is unusually well made with great attention to detail.....

spacer configuration really match up with old Randalls as does sheath and handle, but blade grind seems to differ thought I don't have very early examples of the Model 2 to compare it to

real question is, is it a Randall? can Randall definately be ruled out in some way? if not then who/what

please ask any and all questions (history of knife will provide no clues, no provenance)

thanks....

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Hey Silly,

Thanks very much for posting photos of that knife and sheath! From the hilt back, it smacks of Bo's early work. The earliest Randall stiletto's had the stamp on the blade and not the ricasso:

orig.jpg


Given your blade has no stamp, IMO it was either forged and ground by Bo and did not get stamped (for whatever reason), or it was a customer supplied naked blade that Bo soldered a hilt on and handled. I'm leaning toward the latter as Bo handled many Henckels and Case knives before the war and did just about anything a customer would ask of him during that era.

The reason I'm pretty damned sure it's a Randall (or at least a Randall hybrid), is the sheath: It was made by Bo's premier sheathmaker C.J. Moore. I suggest you send it to Perry Miller / Randall's authenticator. You can reach him at perry@spaceportcutlery.com or (321) 403-6644. Perry will bring it in to Gary and get his opinion.

Your knife and sheath may be a bit rough, but it also might be the earliest Randall stilleto anyone has ever seen! The best way I can describe it is "exciting"!

Best,
 
Hi Ron,

Do you think the guard was originally shaped that way or was it unintentionally (or intentionally) bent along the way? It's also interesting the way the hex nut is slightly countersunk in the cap. Was that common on the old knives?

Thanks,
Tom
 
Hi Tom,

There have been several early fighters show up with that hilt configuration. There may be one in one of Hunt's books. I'm not home to check right now. I don't see the "countersink" in the cap????

Best,
 
wow! thanks guys

as for nut being countersunk...it is not, in fact it looks like a washer of some sort is between nut and top cap (pommel)

I will email/call who you suggested

the knife is in fact my dads he doesnt really do the internet thing yet so I am trying to get info. for him thanks for all your help, as I know more I will add to this thread
 
the guard blade interstection does show evidence of solder, blade looks very much like it was forged and ground by hand
 
Silly Rabbit said:
wow! thanks guys

as for nut being countersunk...it is not, in fact it looks like a washer of some sort is between nut and top cap (pommel)

I will email/call who you suggested

the knife is in fact my dads he doesnt really do the internet thing yet so I am trying to get info. for him thanks for all your help, as I know more I will add to this thread
Click to expand...

The standard for that era was a brass nut and washer. Please let us know what Perry says.

Thanks........
 
Here's a photo of one of the 1st fighters that Bo ever made (Also with a Moore sheath). Note how the spacers at the hilt match up to yours (Very thick reds and a brass spacer in the middle. Only the earliest fighters had metal spacers. Yours is covered in green oxidation which won't happen with a fiber spacer). It's hard to tell because yours is so dirty, but I think it's a good match up:

orig.jpg

orig.jpg


By the way, please don't try to clean any part of the knife or sheath. This will detract from it's collector value.
 
indeed, you can clearly see that the brass one is wedged between two thinner "white" like ones just like your picture

thanks again for all your insight...
 
Those look like vice bite marks on the handle in the seventh photo. Possibly the knife was held in a vice when a previous owner bent the hilt; that might explain the cracked spacer as well. Interesting knife.
 
yes indeed good call, I am looking at it now and see multiple spots of "vice" marks on the handle, I do believe it has seen a vice....
 
I saw the vice marks and I was pretty sure that was how the "choils" were cut in. I have seen that style dagger and sheath before (I think I remember :)). I found this one, but the other maker was one of those mr. x & so and so's sheffield.

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ron mathews said:
I don't see the "countersink" in the cap????
Click to expand...

You're correct, Ron. It was the shadowing of the washer that made it look countersunk to me. Now I see that it is the washer. Dang, 50 year-old eyes. :grumpy:
 
Hi Tom,

No sweat! My eyes are older than yours and I'm sorry to say it gets worse: I didn't look at the top quillion on that early stiletto well enough to pick up on what Sheldon did. I automatically assumed it was half of an "S" bend. Oh well............
 
An update on this one: Robert Gaddis has seen the photos and stated the knife is a very early Randall stiletto. Further, that the very first stilettos did not have a Randal stamp! The 3rd stiletto that Bo made (and shipped in April of 1943) now resides in the Randall Museum (There is a photo of it in Mr. Gaddis' book). It is called the " Moon Mullin" stiletto after the soldier who ordered it. This stiletto as well does not carry a Randall stamp. Silly Rabbit's stiletto may well have been the 1st or 2nd one made and shipped by Bo, but there is no way to verify this.

Best,
 
ron mathews said:
An update on this one: Robert Gaddis has seen the photos and stated the knife is a very early Randall stiletto. Further, that the very first stilettos did not have a Randal stamp! The 3rd stiletto that Bo made (and shipped in April of 1943) now resides in the Randall Museum (There is a photo of it in Mr. Gaddis' book). It is called the " Moon Mullin" stiletto after the soldier who ordered it. This stiletto as well does not carry a Randall stamp. Silly Rabbit's stiletto may well have been the 1st or 2nd one made and shipped by Bo, but there is no way to verify this.

Best,
Click to expand...
Very interesting information. Thanks Ron.
 
Very good info Ron. Glad to hear Bob is still breathing too. I was thinking about calling him, as an older fellow has recently sent me some hard-copy photos and very detailed pencil renderings of all the markings (think Clinton and Cole) of a minty 1954/'55 RMK #2-7. Not sure what else he wants to know, other than the story behind the name etch, but he sure put hours into his letter & information request. I intend to respond in kind. Sounds like SR hit the jackpot of RMK collectibles!
 
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