Old "sawblade steel" at Rc 64 what possiblity?

M

milkbaby

Joined
Aug 1, 2016
Messages
644
I always enjoy looking at other makers' knives for entertainment and inspiration and saw that a particular workshop that tends to enjoy reclaimed materials has made a bunch of kitchen knives from "sawblade steel" at Rc 64. I know they paid for the actual metallurgical analysis, worked on their HT/tempering, and have a hardness tester, so I do not doubt their value.

My question is what are the possible steels their sawblade steel could be? They are American, but I have no idea if they're talking about big lumber sawmill blades, old two-man manual saws, or possibly both. 15N20, 8670, 1095, what steel is most likely especially considering the hardness value for a thin acute angle edge like a kitchen knife?
 
What’s the blade thickness. 15n20 is the most common saw steel used in the industry if the saw is not carbide tipped.
 
JTknives said:
What’s the blade thickness. 15n20 is the most common saw steel used in the industry if the saw is not carbide tipped.
Click to expand...

And 15n20 makes very nice kitchen knives.
 
Old two-man saws were high carbon steel and can easily be hardened to Rc64. Large circular saws could reach that too, depending on the metal alloy.
As JT said, the giant bandsaw blades used in lumber mills are 15N20.
 
15n20 and 8670 both work well in the kitchen at Rc63/64. You give up a fair bit of toughness from Rc62/63 though. In the kitchen, they hold up fine. As Stacy said, the two man saw blades were similar to 1095, but with more manganese. They would work well at Rc64.

There are generic spec steels that are 1075/1080 with up to 2% nickel too, from reading multiple posts on analysis done. I think Rc62/63 is ideal for kitchen use in those steels, including 15n20 or 8670.
 
JTknives said:
What’s the blade thickness. 15n20 is the most common saw steel used in the industry if the saw is not carbide tipped.
Click to expand...

Can you verify that claim? I have reason to believe it may be true for bandsaw blades, but not circular blades.
 
P.Brewster said:
Can you verify that claim? I have reason to believe it may be true for bandsaw blades, but not circular blades.
Click to expand...
That’s why I said blades without carbide teeth. I have not seen a circle saw used in a modern sawmill without carbide teeth. But that’s not to say thy are not out there. I also know that not all bandsaw blades for mills are 15n20. Just like anything there is cheep versions of everything. But most mills know that cheeper blades are not worth the cheeper price.
 
Are we talking about a couple of fellows in North Georgia? If so, they may have strayed a little bit form the reclaimed steel thing. IIRC, I have seen few of there knives made form 52100 and even maybe some CruForgeV.
 
Warren didnt' Larrin's tests indicate that the extreme toughness of 8670 falls off a cliff above a certain hardness?
 
jdm61 said:
Warren didnt' Larrin's tests indicate that the extreme toughness of 8670 falls off a cliff above a certain hardness?
Click to expand...

It drops off to D2 level toughness. You don’t need much toughness in a kitchen knife. The coupons that will show where it drops odd are being ground now. We only have data on Rc60, and Rc64 right now.
 
So the main reason I asked was because I'm curious if it was 15N20 the only tempering chart/graph I'd seen was the one at AKS which seems to show as-quenched hardness at Rc65, meaning Rc64 would basically be untempered. But after some more googling it appears people are getting Rc66+ as quenched when HT at lower temps (<1500F)? Still must be fairly low tempering temps for Rc64 tho?

Yes, I was talking bout them Georgia guys... I'm sure they got a ton of this old steel but saw they were working in other steels too, especially for the integrals they got real fond of making.
 
Yeah, I wonder if those 52100 integrals are using Ray Kirk's steel? I don't know of anyone else who sells 52100 round bar stock in a variety of smaller sizes.
milkbaby said:
So the main reason I asked was because I'm curious if it was 15N20 the only tempering chart/graph I'd seen was the one at AKS which seems to show as-quenched hardness at Rc65, meaning Rc64 would basically be untempered. But after some more googling it appears people are getting Rc66+ as quenched when HT at lower temps (<1500F)? Still must be fairly low tempering temps for Rc64 tho?

Yes, I was talking bout them Georgia guys... I'm sure they got a ton of this old steel but saw they were working in other steels too, especially for the integrals they got real fond of making.
Click to expand...
 
JTknives said:
That’s why I said blades without carbide teeth. I have not seen a circle saw used in a modern sawmill without carbide teeth. But that’s not to say thy are not out there. I also know that not all bandsaw blades for mills are 15n20. Just like anything there is cheep versions of everything. But most mills know that cheeper blades are not worth the cheeper price.
Click to expand...

I've worked with 3 big circular saw manufacturers - although 1 buys from another, so it is really 2 manufacturers. Many of the blades they make are metal-cutting, and huge (4-5 feet diameter). They make the blades to order. If the customer wants carbide, they put on carbide. One of them works exclusively with 8670, the other works with 8670, 1095, 1075, 440, and some tool steel grades. Neither works with 15N20. Obviously you can't make a 4 foot diameter blade from 15N20 if the material isn't made in 4 foot wide plates, which it isn't last time I checked.
 
jdm61 said:
Yeah, I wonder if those 52100 integrals are using Ray Kirk's steel? I don't know of anyone else who sells 52100 round bar stock in a variety of smaller sizes.
Click to expand...

A good round bar steel similar to what you are referring to for forging integrals is the YSC3 steel from japan. Dictum sells it in 19mm round by 1 meter length:
https://www.dictum.com/en/steel-cca/carbon-steel-round-bar-719626

Similar to 52100, this stuff is perfect for forging.
 
That is a five pound piece of steel for $51 USD = roughly $10/lb.
AKS sells 52100 flat stock in .25X3.6X23.5" bars for $88. That would be a 6 pound bar = roughly $15/pound.

Additionally, the cleanness and forgeability is very good with the Japanese round stock linked.
 
Yeah, you are talking about two things that raise the price, getting it flat or getting it to the US. ;) IIRC, Ray's stuff was like $4-5 a pound depending on the diameter. Not sure if he is still selling for that or at all.
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
That is a five pound piece of steel for $51 USD = roughly $10/lb.
AKS sells 52100 flat stock in .25X3.6X23.5" bars for $88. That would be a 6 pound bar = roughly $15/pound.

Additionally, the cleanness and forgeability is very good with the Japanese round stock linked.
Click to expand...
 
Ray's last updated his prices toward the end of last year and was still $-5 a pound for round and Like $6 a pond for the flat bar that he got from Aldo early on.
Willie71 said:
Steel is up 50-100% since a few years ago.
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top