Old Side Sword?

LindaJ

LindaJ

Joined
Jun 22, 2006
Messages
89
hi all,

Is this an old side sword? It does have a mark on the blade see images http://www.geocities.com/research_images/Sword.jpg

The sword is 49" total. The blade alone is 40" of that and it is flat, double edged, pointed at the end. The flat blade is tapered from hilt to tip and not overly "sharp" as in it won't-cut-your-foot-off.

It's a kool piece... There is a nice even patina of "brown" LOL I hate to say rust because its not like rust and there is no pitting. Its just all overall - brown.

Been working too much as usual...
 
The style is an Elizabethan era Rapier. Early to mid 1600s if it is not an aged copy/forgery. Not exactly the same, but you see where the style is coming from

http://www.margospatterns.com/swords.htm

http://www.armor.com/rapiers.html

The forward facing loops were useful if you could entangle your oponents blade as it enabled you to snap theirs. This gave you a distinct advantage with 'reach'. A Rapier is mainly a stabbing blade, but the tip would 'slash'. Think 'The Three Musketeers'.

There a 'real' one here to give you an idea of price.
http://www.antiqueswords.com/bq913.htm

Crikey, I have one of these!
http://www.antiqueswords.com/bq1319.htm
and one of these http://www.antiqueswords.com/bps1.htm
 
Your photos are very bad; but, it still looks like a reproduction. Please add a set of clean photos showing the complete sword (& scabbard if any) and some of the detail.

n2s
 
FullerH said:
You may also wish to post this in the "Antique & Military Swords Forum" at SwordForum.com http://forums.swordforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=11
Click to expand...

Thank you I will.

I have posted close ups here
http://www.geocities.com/research_images/Closeups.jpg

The even "patina" along the whole thing would point to posibility of it being a reproduction... I am sure these have been reproduced since they
were originally forged. There are suspicious parts of it besides the overall color/finish, the wrapping is also unusual a woven material.

Now that I look at this one http://www.antiqueswords.com/bq913.htm metnioned below I can see in the images that it even looks less weighty than the one I have - its more delicate looking an instrument. I really need to get out more to museums however SW FL is not conducive to museum hopping have to go farther north to satisfy the craving for stuff..

There is no scabbard.

Working too much as usual..
Linda.
 
I have never seen a tip like that on any historical example I've ever examined. That does not mean that it is not a one off... but it is certainly... odd especially for the type of sword this purports to be.

If I were to guess I would say that this was a Victorian or later reproduction. However that is merely a maginally educated guess and should certainly not be taken as the final word on the matter. :)
 
Triton said:
I have never seen a tip like that on any historical example I've ever examined. That does not mean that it is not a one off... but it is certainly... odd especially for the type of sword this purports to be.

If I were to guess I would say that this was a Victorian or later reproduction. However that is merely a maginally educated guess and should certainly not be taken as the final word on the matter. :)
Click to expand...

That is about where I am at with this as well. I have a few more things to do on this.... and yeah I know that unusual things can happen to pieces over time - like a blade perhaps being pointed -- Similar to the Model 1886 Sharp's Buffalo Rifle 465 cal. I had here that had its once octagonal barrel *filed* >gasp< To almost round by a previous owner... Now that hurt...
 
Close up now makes it look like a repro. The tip is wrong and they didn't do electro welding in those days. The scrolls are roughly forged.

However, if you get any more Sharp's Buffalo Rifles, let me know.
 
Andrew Taylor said:
Close up now makes it look like a repro. The tip is wrong and they didn't do electro welding in those days. The scrolls are roughly forged.

However, if you get any more Sharp's Buffalo Rifles, let me know.
Click to expand...

Hey Andrew,

Forgive my ignorance on this subject, can you explain where you see the evidence of electro welding? It's this type of stuff I need to learn more about...
 
Triton said:
Hey Andrew,

Forgive my ignorance on this subject, can you explain where you see the evidence of electro welding? It's this type of stuff I need to learn more about...
Click to expand...

I will post some better images of how this is put together. I'm from the "learn all you can about everything" camp. I would say that if you collect or plan to buy, you definately need to know the territory.

I got a mail back from AA Armor - are they on bladeforums? I plugged the list here with them. Their http://www.armor.com/ a nice catalog. They also offer appraisals for original pieces.

The overall consensus I am at is this is a reproduction of an Elizabethan era rapier. The give aways are the overal "patina" heh and that modern "punch" stamp on the blade. Plus, it just does not look right. When I examine "the real deal" online at other sites, pieces worth a couple grand, period pieces, museum pieces, they even look different from this one. Perhaps this was a stage prop at one time?

Now I do have two other swords.... Want to see them?

Bacck to work...
 
LindaJ said:
I will post some better images of how this is put together. I'm from the "learn all you can about everything" camp. I would say that if you collect or plan to buy, you definately need to know the territory.

I got a mail back from AA Armor - are they on bladeforums? I plugged the list here with them. Their http://www.armor.com/ a nice catalog. They also offer appraisals for original pieces.

The overall consensus I am at is this is a reproduction of an Elizabethan era rapier. The give aways are the overal "patina" heh and that modern "punch" stamp on the blade. Plus, it just does not look right. When I examine "the real deal" online at other sites, pieces worth a couple grand, period pieces, museum pieces, they even look different from this one. Perhaps this was a stage prop at one time?

Now I do have two other swords.... Want to see them?

Bacck to work...
Click to expand...


I don't know that I've ever seen Chris or Craig post here although I suppose they might have a login. I think that there is not enough traffic in this forum to really generate a lot of interest for them. They often contribute to swordforum and myarmoury however. I did not remember that they do appraisals. They would be in a position to know since they have a good portion of Oakeshott's collection in their possession or so I understand.

I would love to see what else you have.
 
Triton said:
They would be in a position to know since they have a good portion of Oakeshott's collection in their possession or so I understand.

I would love to see what else you have.
Click to expand...


Oakeshott Institute
http://www.oakeshott.org/1831art.html

http://www.oakeshott.org/metal.html
"When the modern researcher comes across a piece of quality armor made of iron this can be seen as a red flag that the item may be a later reconstruction."

very kool knowledge for all.....

Linda@ wourk.
 
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