Old steels aren't going anywhere anytime soon

L

LostCause

Joined
Apr 1, 2022
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All of these:
1095
SK5
80CrV2
AUS8
D2
420HC
And many more...

They are here to stay. They are simple, easy to produce, easy to heat treat and are widely available. That also makes them very affordable. And most importantly - they stood the test of time.

Super steels on the other hand... I see less CPM154, S30V and so on.
I think with MagnaCut coming out - even more supersteels will become obsolete.

So, some might wonder if that will push old steels out from budget spectrum and we'll have for example S30V budget knives instead of AUS8?
I don't see that happening.
I don't see 3V replacing 1095 either.


I can see MagnaCut eat away sales of S30V, S35VN, S45VN, M390, 20CV, CruWear, 4V and even 3V.
But I can't see MagnaCut hurting the sales of old steels.

Multiple reasons:
1. Getting Vanadium and other elements required for more modern steels isn't really cheap.
2. Powder metal process itself is more complicated than producing ingot steel.
3. Grinding carbide rich steels isn't cheap or easy.
4. Old steels are easier to heat treat properly.
5. Customers that want budget knives are less concerned about steel and having latest and greatest.
6. Having exceptionally good budget options would hurt sales of premium segment.
7. Old steels still do their job as well as they did when they first hit the market. They are perfectly serviceable.
 
I think it depends on a lot of other factors in each case. AUS8 has already fallen out of favor and isn't likely to come back. It's a budget steel by modern standards, and budget knives tend to be made in China. Why pay the premium and import taxes to use AUS8 in a Chinese knife when they could use the very similar and locally available 8Cr13MoV?

S30V is less common now, but that's because it's been replaced by S35VN, which has similar performance but is easier to manufacture.

I still see a lot of 154cm and I kind of doubt it's going away; it's a very nicely balanced steel. You may be looking at different types of knives, but it's a very popular choice for automatics, high end traditionals, modern folders, and even fixed blades.

I do agree that 1095 and D2 probably aren't going anywhere. The Chinese are making something that falls within the specs of D2, so they call it that and you see a lot of that on budget Chinese knives. 1095 is so inexpensive and has fans in the traditional and fixed blade areas who like the way it sharpens up.
 
It's all about the budget really. A really well heat-treated PM steel blade is an investment that many companies don't always seem to prioritize, over the name on the blade, itself. Plenty, plenty, plenty of M390 class steels still running around out there, especially within the "Chinese" knives that seem to be all the rage these days. From what I understand, Magnacut is not available to China, nor its makers (in China), at least at this time. Once, or if, that occurs, I can see the other PM steels possibly falling out of favor, but realistically, most folks out there that you hear, or read from (the armchair quarterback "reviewer crowd") only care about the name of the game, than the performance of the horse. To them, 1095, D2, AUS8, et al. died LONG AGO. Magnacut dethroning all other steels is still yet TBD. I however, don't think so.
 
Back when I was making knives as a hobby(late 80's early 90's), ATS 34 was all the rage for custom cutlery. Now I don't think you can even find a single blade manufactured using that steel, yet you still find 400 series stainless all over, the steel that ATS 34 was supposed to replace. So yeah, steel come and go, but the staples, meaning steel that are widely used in industries other than cutlery and therefore provide tremendous economy of scale, will stay.
 
Think of steels like cars. You see plenty of old cars driving around still with no problem. Newer cars are of course more optimal, but some just love their old car. All of them will get you to your destination, maybe some will need to stop for gas more often than others and be serviced more often than others.
 
I think knife makers will use any steel that they believe will yield them a profit. You know, the old supply and demand thing. Give the people what they want.

As for me, I don't get real hung up on any of it. I like my SAKs, my Bucks (with their "standard" steel), my fixed blade knives with 1095, and I currently have a Buck with S30V, on order. If I have to sharpen a knife every once in a while, well, I'm OK with that, too. :)
 
Tsujigiri said:
I think it depends on a lot of other factors in each case. AUS8 has already fallen out of favor and isn't likely to come back. It's a budget steel by modern standards, and budget knives tend to be made in China. Why pay the premium and import taxes to use AUS8 in a Chinese knife when they could use the very similar and locally available 8Cr13MoV?

S30V is less common now, but that's because it's been replaced by S35VN, which has similar performance but is easier to manufacture.

I still see a lot of 154cm and I kind of doubt it's going away; it's a very nicely balanced steel. You may be looking at different types of knives, but it's a very popular choice for automatics, high end traditionals, modern folders, and even fixed blades.

I do agree that 1095 and D2 probably aren't going anywhere. The Chinese are making something that falls within the specs of D2, so they call it that and you see a lot of that on budget Chinese knives. 1095 is so inexpensive and has fans in the traditional and fixed blade areas who like the way it sharpens up.
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Would agree, I love my premiums and own a good many of both. But I can sharpen a knife of 1095 CroVan to such a beautiful edge it would make you smack your mother.
 
weeping minora said:
It's all about the budget really. A really well heat-treated PM steel blade is an investment that many companies don't always seem to prioritize, over the name on the blade, itself. Plenty, plenty, plenty of M390 class steels still running around out there, especially within the "Chinese" knives that seem to be all the rage these days. From what I understand, Magnacut is not available to China, nor its makers (in China), at least at this time. Once, or if, that occurs, I can see the other PM steels possibly falling out of favor, but realistically, most folks out there that you hear, or read from (the armchair quarterback "reviewer crowd") only care about the name of the game, than the performance of the horse. To them, 1095, D2, AUS8, et al. died LONG AGO. Magnacut dethroning all other steels is still yet TBD. I however, don't think so.
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About budget - agreed. Well heat treated ingot steel is in my opinion better investment than powder steel with major corner cutting HT process.
But from company wiew point - the name is what sells.

I'noticed M390 explosion too but I've never been into M390 types of steel.
I'm aware that S35VN was designed to be upgraded S30V, and S45VN was designed to be next step up, but with MagnaCut being all the rage - I already see it pushing other steels out of premium spectrum.

About China - they will catch up, like they always do.

About reviewers and YouTubers - many of them still do review knives in steels such as 1095, 1095CV, or simple stainless steel. For the same reasons manufacturers use them - there is interest.

Interest is driving force. There's huge ammount of people who don't want to spend a fortune on a knife. And people who buy a knife to use it. They buy by reputation (one of my uncles knows Fallkniven is good, so he will buy that, other one will buy Puma, third has Cold Steel). And some people buy what they know, some people know how 1095 behaves and like it, so they'll buy that. They will buy a knife and use it for years until they sharpen it away a lot, lose it, damage the blade, or handle or sheath get worn out, or they either gift it away. Then they'll buy another one and do the same.
And those kinds of people won't know or care what some reviewer wrote or said about knife they just bought. They won't even read or watch the video. Some didn't even know what knife will they buy, they just went to store and asked the guy something like "What do you reccomend for hunting that's within 70€?".
They care about getting the job done. And these older steels still get the job done, and are within price range these people are willing to pay for a knife.
 
Ahh yes. The weekly answer to the question no one is asking.

Old steel is great. New steel is great. If you like knives you should welcome and celebrate that there are companies putting a ton of money and effort into advancements and improvements. It doesn’t make older steels obsolete

Case closed
 
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