Old water heater

[weo]

Hello all. Sorry if this is way off topic, but I just had to replace an old water heater in my house that was leaking, and wondered if, other than the heating elements, anyone knows or has any ideas on if any other parts are useful. I was thinking about turning into a quench tank using the heating elements to warm the oil, but it seems like a lot f work cleaning off all the foam insulation to get to the water tank to see if the leak is fixable.

Thanks

as always
peace and love
billyO

 

[Drew Riley]

Hello all. Sorry if this is way off topic, but I just had to replace an old water heater in my house that was leaking, and wondered if, other than the heating elements, anyone knows or has any ideas on if any other parts are useful. I was thinking about turning into a quench tank using the heating elements to warm the oil, but it seems like a lot f work cleaning off all the foam insulation to get to the water tank to see if the leak is fixable.

Thanks

as always
peace and love
billyO

Assuming it's an average sized water tank, that's a bit of overkill, IMO for quenching a few knives here and there. Even a small 30 gallon tank, cut in half, would take a lot of oil to fill it. However, I do actually use an electric water heater element to heat the oil in my quench tank, which is a 4" vertical pipe with the element installed in the bottom.

 

[AlaskanHunter]

Hello all. Sorry if this is way off topic, but I just had to replace an old water heater in my house that was leaking, and wondered if, other than the heating elements, anyone knows or has any ideas on if any other parts are useful. I was thinking about turning into a quench tank using the heating elements to warm the oil, but it seems like a lot f work cleaning off all the foam insulation to get to the water tank to see if the leak is fixable.

Thanks

as always
peace and love
billyO

Probably not worth trying to fix the leak. Most non-stainless water heater tanks have a thin ceramic liner, similar to the old enamleware dishes, and they don't weld that well. Might be worth pulling the aquastat and heater elements off for that quench tank build though.

 

[Justin Schmidt]

Depending on how big it is you might be able to cut it and make a forge

 

[weo]

Assuming it's an average sized water tank, that's a bit of overkill, IMO for quenching a few knives here and there. Even a small 30 gallon tank, cut in half, would take a lot of oil to fill it. However, I do actually use an electric water heater element to heat the oil in my quench tank, which is a 4" vertical pipe with the element installed in the bottom.

Might be worth pulling the aquastat and heater elements off for that quench tank build though.

The above were my thoughts too, just wondered if there was any benefit to pulling the tank out too.

Depending on how big it is you might be able to cut it and make a forge

Another good idea, but I already have a forge made out of a length of pipe about the same diameter as the tank.

Thanks all.
~billyO

 

[Geoff Flato]

If nothing else it'd probably make a decent garbage can, scrap metal can, or chip bin

 

[Lieblad]

Typical waterheater element is 4kW or so. It would work, but quite hot (density) for heating quench oil. Of course one could run it at lower voltage 120Vac for example (if its not already 120V element...)
Rig it all up with PID and everything. Still way more trouble than its worth.
But would make a good as any slacktub if its size is right.

 

[Gilbert M]

I made a vertical platen to grind clips I made it so that it will just lay on top of my flat platen with an "L" shaped lip on top. Another platen I made I bent a piece of 1/8 inch steel around an oil drum to make a platen to grind the hollow on a yanagiba the water might work.
Gilbert

 

[weo]

Another platen I made I bent a piece of 1/8 inch steel around an oil drum to make a platen to grind the hollow on a yanagiba the water might work.
Gilbert

Are you talking about the Urasuki? I've been planning on making one out or a 3/4" thick piece of O1 I have. I thought the radius of the curve was about 2 feet and the water heater radius is only 11"

 

[EdgarsLeftLeg]

How hot can a water heater get, anyway? I've been trying to come up with a budget oil quencher that can quench O1 at the recommended 1450 f, but I haven't found anything that can support that kind of heat.

 

[Drew Riley]

How hot can a water heater get, anyway? I've been trying to come up with a budget oil quencher that can quench O1 at the recommended 1450 f, but I haven't found anything that can support that kind of heat.

I think you're getting some terms/methods mixed up. Quench oil shouldn't need to get heated much past 100 to 150F at the most. The steel is heated to 1450F or hotter in a kiln, or even a forge, and then cooled or quenched in the much cooler oil. That's not to mention marquenching (or martempering), however, where the oil might be heated hotter than standard quench mediums, but due to the flash point of oil and the temperatures more often needed for martempering, a certain type of salt is more commonly used. I'm not sure that a water heater tank would be my choice for this application either, though.

 

[EdgarsLeftLeg]

I think you're getting some terms/methods mixed up. Quench oil shouldn't need to get heated much past 100 to 150F at the most. The steel is heated to 1450F or hotter in a kiln, or even a forge, and then cooled or quenched in the much cooler oil. That's not to mention marquenching (or martempering), however, where the oil might be heated hotter than standard quench mediums, but due to the flash point of oil and the temperatures more often needed for martempering, a certain type of salt is more commonly used. I'm not sure that a water heater tank would be my choice for this application either, though.

O1 benefits from a slow quench, which is achieved by keeping it immersed in oil much hotter than a normal oil quench for something like 1084. The process takes about 10-20 minutes.

With that being said, I might have misinterpreted the actual temperature the oil should be heated to in order to achieve a slow quench. The label on my O1 stock indicates that the steel hardens at "1450-1500 f, oil quench" - but perhaps this means the O1 is heated to 1450 and quenched in colder oil. I haven't been able to find specifics about the oil temperature other than that.

 

[Josh Rider]

O1 benefits from a slow quench, which is achieved by keeping it immersed in oil much hotter than a normal oil quench for something like 1084. The process takes about 10-20 minutes.

With that being said, I might have misinterpreted the actual temperature the oil should be heated to in order to achieve a slow quench. The label on my O1 stock indicates that the steel hardens at "1450-1500 f, oil quench" - but perhaps this means the O1 is heated to 1450 and quenched in colder oil. I haven't been able to find specifics about the oil temperature other than that.

Yes you’re getting your terms confused. O1 is an oil quenched steel, but the 10+ minute process is soaking the heat in a kiln or proper controlled forge, not how long it soaks in the oil.

Here’s a good reference website when you have questions about heating certain carbon steels:
http://www.cashenblades.com/steel/o1.html

1084 would be a better steel to start out with for simple home heat treating.

 

[Drew Riley]

O1 benefits from a slow quench, which is achieved by keeping it immersed in oil much hotter than a normal oil quench for something like 1084. The process takes about 10-20 minutes.

With that being said, I might have misinterpreted the actual temperature the oil should be heated to in order to achieve a slow quench. The label on my O1 stock indicates that the steel hardens at "1450-1500 f, oil quench" - but perhaps this means the O1 is heated to 1450 and quenched in colder oil. I haven't been able to find specifics about the oil temperature other than that.

If using a professional quenchant, the manufacturer's MSDS will give you the recommended operating/service temps for open air quenching in that particular Oil. IIRC, parks 50 is something between 60F and 120F, and Parks AAA quench is 130F to 160F or so. If using something like canola oil, most guys heat to about 120F or 130F before quenching. Other quenchants may vary slightly.

 

[Gilbert M]

Weo
On my Yanagiba I started the hollow with the platen applying pressure along the center of the blade then using that hollow as a guide free handed with the point facing up and down to increase the radius. I read it from something Stacy wrote maybe in his Yanagiba wip. I shaped a block of wood for the final sanding.

 

[Randy3000]

In my very first house, an old 800sqft farm house I gave $30k for, I replaced the "water heater" after I noticed my water bill increased $100 in a month! It was literally a cast iron pot with no insulation and was rusted so bad a stream of water 1/4 inch in diameter was steadily shooting out the top. It crumbled into pieces by the time I got it out. The wiring was highly bubba'd, it's a wonder the place didn't burn down!