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Older HI marking
- Thread starter sastrugi
- Start date
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2007
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- 2,964
The sun marking is also newer.
I think that showed up in 2005?
Look at the bottom of this page on the HI site and you can see some older signatures.
http://www.himalayan-imports.com/kami.html#kami-mark-guide
I dunno if the blades were marked with the HI initials as well. You need someone who has been around a bit to verify.
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2005
- Messages
- 887
I don't believe I've ever seen any Arabic-alphabet letters on a khukuri, H.I. or not. Devanagari and Roman/English, but not Arabic.
- Joined
- May 18, 1999
- Messages
- 15,395
When I first started here with the HI Forum and khuks the early Shop 1 HI Khukuri's were marked only with the HI logo at the bend in Devanagari and had what is known as a "scrolled buttcap."
It was a two piece affair with a "scrolled" skirt soldered onto the buttcap proper making it look like a very thick piece of brass. While very pretty they were a royal pain in the arse because they couldn't be modified without messing up their appearance.
When Pala and Uncle Bill decided to strike out on their own and Shop 2, the forerunner of BirGhorka, came into being there was a time of transition and while not remembering all that happened or the order it happened in I do recall bits and pieces, so while I will put the bits and pieces down the way I remember them remember that what I write below is in some general but no particular order....
It was decided that the khuks would be serial numbered and although they were indeed numbered, in numerical order the best I can recall, I don't think there was any records kept as to when the numbering started or stopped.
The early Shop 2 khuks weren't as nicely fitted and finished as the Shop 1 khuks were but they were adequate and good honest to God khuks!:thumbup:
Then for a short while because of import requirements of having the place of origin placed on all imported products all of the HI Khuks were stamped with, "Made in Nepal" but it wasn't long until Uncle Bill found or figured out all that was needed was a piece of tape or such imprinted with "Made in Nepal" on the khuks so the ugly stamping was done away with.
Y'all need to remember what I said above about me remembering bits and pieces as some of these instances overlapped once in a while I'm sure, like the numbering and "Made in Nepal" stampings I'm pretty sure....
Somewhere along about then it was decided that we would like to have the kamis mark their own khuks with a stamp that would always remain their very own. Like so many things in a culture we're not accustomed to that happened so so. The Nepali Flag mark over time became the mark for two different kamis, some of the other guys will recall who started out with it, methinks it was Durba but I'm not at all sure.
Then since the individual markings didn't work out it was decided that the kamis should use their initials along with them so that was started.
Somewhere along about then I think the four direction sun mark was added to insure we were getting a real HI khukuri. From there methinks everything is recent enough to search out if need be and the markings have evolved into what we have now.
So there you have it the best I can recall, I'll email Norm with the url to this thread as he keeps excellent records and may have everything on a spreadsheet in the correct order.
It was a two piece affair with a "scrolled" skirt soldered onto the buttcap proper making it look like a very thick piece of brass. While very pretty they were a royal pain in the arse because they couldn't be modified without messing up their appearance.
When Pala and Uncle Bill decided to strike out on their own and Shop 2, the forerunner of BirGhorka, came into being there was a time of transition and while not remembering all that happened or the order it happened in I do recall bits and pieces, so while I will put the bits and pieces down the way I remember them remember that what I write below is in some general but no particular order....
It was decided that the khuks would be serial numbered and although they were indeed numbered, in numerical order the best I can recall, I don't think there was any records kept as to when the numbering started or stopped.
The early Shop 2 khuks weren't as nicely fitted and finished as the Shop 1 khuks were but they were adequate and good honest to God khuks!:thumbup:
Then for a short while because of import requirements of having the place of origin placed on all imported products all of the HI Khuks were stamped with, "Made in Nepal" but it wasn't long until Uncle Bill found or figured out all that was needed was a piece of tape or such imprinted with "Made in Nepal" on the khuks so the ugly stamping was done away with.
Y'all need to remember what I said above about me remembering bits and pieces as some of these instances overlapped once in a while I'm sure, like the numbering and "Made in Nepal" stampings I'm pretty sure....
Somewhere along about then it was decided that we would like to have the kamis mark their own khuks with a stamp that would always remain their very own. Like so many things in a culture we're not accustomed to that happened so so.
The Nepali Flag mark over time became the mark for two different kamis, some of the other guys will recall who started out with it, methinks it was Durba but I'm not at all sure.Then since the individual markings didn't work out it was decided that the kamis should use their initials along with them so that was started.
Somewhere along about then I think the four direction sun mark was added to insure we were getting a real HI khukuri. From there methinks everything is recent enough to search out if need be and the markings have evolved into what we have now.
So there you have it the best I can recall, I'll email Norm with the url to this thread as he keeps excellent records and may have everything on a spreadsheet in the correct order.
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2003
- Messages
- 4,793
That's true. One or the other. Arabic is a whole 'nother animal. The Devanagari is one of the Brahmic character sets, and is the only one used in Nepal as far as I know. However India uses other alphabets including Arabic as well as Brahmic, and it wouldn't surprise me to see a kukri made in India with an Arabic letter on it.
Norm
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2003
- Messages
- 4,793
When I first started here with the HI Forum and khuks the early Shop 1 HI Khukuri's were marked only with the HI logo at the bend in Devanagari and had what is known as a "scrolled buttcap."
It was a two piece affair with a "scrolled" skirt soldered onto the buttcap proper making it look like a very thick piece of brass. While very pretty they were a royal pain in the arse because they couldn't be modified without messing up their appearance.
When Pala and Uncle Bill decided to strike out on their own and Shop 2, the forerunner of BirGhorka, came into being there was a time of transition and while not remembering all that happened or the order it happened in I do recall bits and pieces, so while I will put the bits and pieces down the way I remember them remember that what I write below is in some general but no particular order....
It was decided that the khuks would be serial numbered and although they were indeed numbered, in numerical order the best I can recall, I don't think there was any records kept as to when the numbering started or stopped.
The early Shop 2 khuks weren't as nicely fitted and finished as the Shop 1 khuks were but they were adequate and good honest to God khuks!:thumbup:
Then for a short while because of import requirements of having the place of origin placed on all imported products all of the HI Khuks were stamped with, "Made in Nepal" but it wasn't long until Uncle Bill found or figured out all that was needed was a piece of tape or such imprinted with "Made in Nepal" on the khuks so the ugly stamping was done away with.
Y'all need to remember what I said above about me remembering bits and pieces as some of these instances overlapped once in a while I'm sure, like the numbering and "Made in Nepal" stampings I'm pretty sure....
Somewhere along about then it was decided that we would like to have the kamis mark their own khuks with a stamp that would always remain their very own. Like so many things in a culture we're not accustomed to that happened so so. The Nepali Flag mark over time became the mark for two different kamis, some of the other guys will recall who started out with it, methinks it was Durba but I'm not at all sure.
Then since the individual markings didn't work out it was decided that the kamis should use their initials along with them so that was started.
Somewhere along about then I think the four direction sun mark was added to insure we were getting a real HI khukuri. From there methinks everything is recent enough to search out if need be and the markings have evolved into what we have now.
So there you have it the best I can recall, I'll email Norm with the url to this thread as he keeps excellent records and may have everything on a spreadsheet in the correct order.
Well, Yvsa's memory is a heck of a lot more accurate than mine in many cases, simply because I wasn't around when a lot of this was happening. I found HI in 12/03, and didn't start signing over my paychecks to Uncle Bill until about March of '04. Then for 2 years I didn't look back.
And I really haven't bought anything of consequence I'm sorry to say since late '06, just a couple of lucky snags, but I don't think markings have changed in the last year.The weakness in documenting as clearly as possible is my not knowing _exactly_ when the transition between Shop 2 and BirGhorka happened, and even if I did that timeline doesn't always help. I know for a fact that Uncle Bill went into his stash from time to time and sold some Shop 2 stuff way after it had been made, and some even earlier models here and there as well. In late 2004 he sold me a 10" fixed blade knife called a "Bag Marne" that has a pretty handle with horn ringlets and brass fittings, that he said was a Shop 1 effort.
Anyway, I don't know that I can add a lot to Yvsa's timeline info at all, but WRT the markings, here's what I see from my review:
1) Shop 1 AK: HI script only in Devanāgarī on the mid right side of the blade.
2) Shop 2 Hanshee: (provenance says by Bura); HI script only in Devanāgarī on the mid right side of the blade. No serial # on this one. (?)
3) Very early BirGhorka Gelbu Special: HI script only in Devanāgarī on the mid right side of the blade.
4) Early BirGhorka satisal finger groove AK and Tin Chirra: HI script in Devanāgarī on the mid right side of the blade, single kami mark on left ricasso. (I really liked this look. Left side quick kami ID, right the HI mark.)
5) Later BirGhorka Sanu M43: HI script in Devanāgarī on the mid right side of the blade, roman letter "S.N." on right ricasso, with his kami mark (cross) right next to it. No markings at all on the left side of the blade.
Many knives followed with this model as described in #5. Some variants as individual kamis did their own thing (what! How could that be?
), and I have a few that have the kami initials in roman letter ricasso right, but their individual kami mark, no sun, on the left ricasso.6) Somewhere in here the sun was added. As the sun crowded the already right side, most kamis adjusted the placement of their initials on the right ricasso to make room, but a few rebels just kept their roman initials on the right ricasso, and moved their kami sign and new sun to the left ricasso.
(Confusing! I know...)
7) Around here is where I started getting serious. Most of the new production knives I acquired at this time in mid 2004 fit the #6 model. Many of us started asking (OK, whining, bitchin' and moaning!
) for the kamis to please stop using the (to us) ugly roman initials. Most of the kamis switched to Devanāgarī at this point which looks far prettier, but everything is still on the right side for the most part.8) And then March '05 sadly came and Uncle passed on. Yangdu went home for a long visit for Uncle Bill's puja, and Dan took over the forum for a while. When Yangdu returned she told of the news that "U.B." would be added to every future blade. The new model was HI script in the same mid right location, "U.B." in roman initials on the right ricasso, and the kami initials, mark and sun all on the left ricasso.
The kami initials on the left ricasso were supposed to be in the new Devanāgarī script, but Bura still had a few creep in with the old "L.B.", but correctly moved to the left side. Maybe a couple of the others as well. I recall Kumar doing this for a while too.
9) Anyway, that leads to what we have now, which is HI script mid right, as always, UB roman inits right ricasso, kami inits in script left ricasso, along with their mark and sun, left ricasso.
One nice variant I wish we would see more of: in late '06 I snagged a sweet Gelbu villager, and the "U.B." on the right ricasso, was _also_ in Devanāgarī. Looks nice.
So that's my unofficial take on it. Feel free to correct me; there are almost certainly missing pieces as there were entire chunks of production that I wasn't here. Yvsa's got the timeline right though, and I think this covers most of the marking changes.
Norm
- Joined
- May 5, 1999
- Messages
- 3,065
Uncle Bill asked the kamis to put serial numbers and kami initials on the early Shop 2 khukuris. Here is the result, marked "SN1 Made KGR". Cool, huh? Only two problems. KGR,whoever he was, didn't make it. He was the only one in the shop who could write in the Roman alphabet, so his initials were on all the khukuris. And SN1 actually arrived in the second or third shipment; the concept of sequential serial numbers does not translate well to the process of khukuri-making as practiced in a small shop. The attempt didn't last long before it was abandoned, and the extra effort required went into perfecting the quality of finish for which BirGorkha is now known.
