Older knives

Gary W. Graley

Gary W. Graley

“Imagination is more important than knowledge"
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
Joined
Mar 2, 1999
Messages
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Evening folks, nice night on the porch, was just thinking about a few older knives I've handled, older meaning back in the 30's and 40's era, a friend at work that I infected with the steel virus is starting to build up a collection now. He showed me an older knife with a well worn look but plenty of life left and I couldn't help but notice how those guys of yester year would grind that blade down to a very thin edge. Where some knives, most knives, production, you will find a much thicker blade down by the edge. I know GEC has an does pretty good on their knives, and of course Opinels as well, keeping thin helps cut if you have the heat treat done properly.

But what had me thinking was those guys back in the day, they made their knives to cut, no nonsense, no worry if someone would complain if they horsed on the blade and caused it to chip, folks should know how to handle a knife, or they shouldn't be allowed to own one ;)

So just being nostalgic I guess, but couldn't help but wonder what those guys would think about these new knives of today. Probably shake their heads and get back to work, yeah, they did that back then, worked...strong work ethics made this country proud.

Ok, coffee's ready, nite folks!
G2
 
Gary W. Graley said:
but couldn't help but wonder what those guys would think about these new knives of today. Probably shake their heads and get back to work,
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For a lot of the knives today (that are not talked about here) they would probably wonder why someone wanted or needed a sharpened folding prybar ... and probably wonder why single blade traditional pocket knives are so popular ...
 
There was no need to be Instagram-ready back in those days :) I'm grateful for the generations before us that were hard-working, practical and focused on the more important things in life. I was fortunate enough to be raised with my grandfather and all of the pocket knives he used, that I recall, were nothing special to look at but had wicked edges on them. I definitely do not recall any talk of snap, walk and talk, pinchable, centered blades or anything like that. What I do recall were lessons in steel types, lubrication and sharpening. I'd like to think he would be polite and compliment someone for their new, shiny knife but maybe chuckle to himself before he got back to work.
 
This thread and Jacknife's thread got me thinking...

My Grandpa carried a knife. It was a black knife, with multiple blades (possibly a stockman). I remember it had end caps and a shield. That's all I remember about it. The only time I saw it is when I would hurt my finger or I got a "boo boo". He would pull the knife out of his pocket, open the big blade, and threatened to cut off the offending appendage to make it better. He would also wave the finger with the missing tip for more effect. I always got the message: "Man up!"

That is the only memory I have of my Grandpa's knife.

My Dad never carried a knife. He was not into knives, guns, hunting, camping, or spending any time outdoors. He used to confiscate my knives when he'd find them and throw them into a shoe box in the closet. I had to convince him to let me have a knife when I joined Scouts. He was a white collar, working man, that spent all his free time in his garden or working on the house.

There wasn't exactly a knife tradition in my family.

I say this because I didn't come by my knife enthusiasm through any tradition. I just think of my knives as useful tools and some are beautiful works of art. But tradition never dictated what type I carried. When I was a kid I'd carry a scout knife because that's what scouts carried. Later it was jack knives because that's what my friends carried. When I started working it was one hand opening modern knives because they were convenient.

Now that I'm older it's back to traditional knives and maybe that's where nostalgia and tradition start to take root.
 
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In retirement my grandpa “sized up” from a 3-1/4” bone-handled stockman office carry, to a Schrade 8OT. Blades on both knives were ground thin, had steel that was plenty hard, and were made to slice and nothing else. They were (and still are in my own care now) great cutting instruments!

For knives I purchase new, I thin my bevels and keep my edges very thin as well, less that 15-degrees per side usually. I’ve noticed over the years that the edges don’t deform if I’m cutting the types of things that knives are reasonably expected to cut. In fact, I think thinner edges are less likely to deform than thick edges because less pressure is needed to make the cut (provided we are discussing things knives are properly meant to cut, and not things like car doors, etc.). YMMV.
 
Excellent point, Will. :thumbsup::thumbsup:

My early (American) experience with knives back in the 1960s was almost exclusively with multi-blade folders, and I still prefer a multi-blade model over a single blade (and I've wondered, with afishhunter afishhunter 's hypothetical old guys and with O Old Biker , why single blade folders always seem so popular here). But when I started exploring knives (other than SAKs) from other countries, I was amazed to find how ubiquitous single-bladed knives were, especially in Europe, as Will noted. The souvenir folders I got when I visited my daughter in Spain several years ago are all 1-bladed knives, and I don't recall seeing any Spanish multi-blade knives except for scout/camp/sportsman style models in the shops I visited.

- GT
 
Yup, things are different today (of course by today I mean my generation, not those born after I graduated from highschool - always about me ;) :confused: :D) anyway, I digress. I'm sure there were plenty knife nuts in the 30s and 40s who took care of their knives and got the best out of them, while others ground the blades or honed them to death, kept them sharp but took them down to nearly useless edges. My father was one those regular guys :eek:. Not a knife left behind that has any use remaining except for a bemused look or a chuckle or two.

Still, he and his carpenter/woodworker friends would be delighted and amazed with impact screw drivers, sawzalls, carbide saw blades, battery operated tools and, of course, work knives that you could open with one hand while the other held your work or when standing on a ladder. If they could also afford a gent's knife, some nice Lloyd stag would be a most amazing and precious possession.

Fortunately I get to live split in these 2 worlds - sharing my Dad's work ethic and appreciative of the new and improved, also thankful that I'm my age and not in my 20s. We can never properly live in some one else's age or do some one else's duty. Perhaps the current youngster will look back on us with some respect too - perhaps. :rolleyes:

I hope I haven't sounded like I'm dismissing your Porch Musings Gary, just musing myself, thanks to your post.

Ray
 
To address Gary's post;

Basically, in the old days working men had other things on their minds than zombi apocalypse or invading paratroopers. Like earning a living and supporting a family and existing in the real world. Sometimes in the real world you have to cut something. This is why they carried a pocket knife. A pocket knife was a cutting tool that was carried for a specific purpose, that off cutting. It wasn't a pry bar, zombi killer, or any other kind of talisman for Walter Mitty day dreams.

Old knives very often had blades that were thin enough that even if getting dull could still be sawed through the material to be cut. Very often working knives were a single blade knife to cut costs. In the U.S. the Sodbuster and large single blade granddaddy Barlow were single blade knives. Over seas the Opinel and Douk-Douk in France, the Terramundi in Spain, the Mercator in Germany, are all fine examples of good working knives for a no nonsense cutting tool. Again, all have nice thin blades ground down to a very fine edge. They ain't designed to be axes, pry bars, chisels, log splitters, or combat tools.

As for what he old guys would say if they could see the knives of today? Being an old fart I can answer that. They'd say the modern knives are as silly as a cartoon and fantasy objects. There's an unreal weapons slanted aspect to the one hand wonder knives that over shadows the need for just opening a plastic blister package or your mail or cutting a piece of twine. Where our grandfathers knives were working tools with nice thin edges for cutting, the modern knife market seems to cater to action fantasy cult worship objects.
 
I'm an old guy that was born in the 50's and grew up in the 60's and I lived (and still do) in the Appalachian Mountains in NC. Not only were times much different in the 60's but where I lived was behind the times and very poor compared to most of the country. I can't remember ever knowing a man back then that did not have a pocket knife tucked away in his pocket. It wasn't just the men either. Most of the ladies back then wore an apron with a pocket the width of the apron sewn across the front of it. Almost all of them had a pocket knife or kitchen knife stored in that pocket. To these folks a knife was a tool to be used as intended which was to cut things. The men for everything from cutting off a chaw of tobacco to cutting off the end of a rubber hose to fix a truck or tractor and everything in between. The ladies used theirs for gardening processing food and so on. These knives were always sharpened on a whetstone and I've saw many whetstones that had been used until they looked like an u. The knives were used until the blades didn't have any metal left to sharpen. IMO those folks would of had no use what so ever for a modern folder there was nothing that those old slipjoints couldn't handle in a time and place that folks had to pretty much do everything for themselves.
When I began to take knife collecting seriously like many of you I started buying modern folders Spyderco, Benchmade, Medford, Chris Reeve and so on. Turned out they just weren't for me. Now I still have a few folders but my slippies can do anything those moderns can do and more.
 
My grandfather died when I was 7 but I sure remember him fondly.
He was a Missouri farm boy who moved to California after he got back from the war, he wasn't a hunter and he didn't eat fish though he sure loved to catch them.
He was no master craftsman but if something was broken he could fix it, it may not be the proper way but you can bet it would work.
To him a knife was a disposable cutting tool, and his tool of choice was the humble Victorinox classic.
He'd use them up then replace as needed for $10 at the nearest Walmart.

He had a razor sharp little blade in his pocket that took care of all of his cutting needs, I pretty much ended up with all his tools and there was no utility knife to be found.
I guess that explains the condition of his last Vic classic, which was still razor sharp when I received it btw.

I don't know how he discovered the Victorinox classic, but i do know that its a very thin razor sharp litt blade.
I know that he used his knife blade as a knife blade and kept a freebie pocket screwdriver in his shirt pocket which he would no doubt have used for any minor poking proding and prying tasks.
 
JohnDF said:
This thread and Jacknife's thread got me thinking...

My Grandpa carried a knife. It was a black knife, with multiple blades (possibly a stockman). I remember it had end caps and a shield. That's all I remember about it. The only time I saw it is when I would hurt my finger or I got a "boo boo". He would pull the knife out of his pocket, open the big blade, and threatened to cut off the offending appendage to make it better. He would also wave the finger with the missing tip for more effect. I always got the message: "Man up!"

That is the only memory I have of my Grandpa's knife.

My Dad never carried a knife. He was not into knives, guns, hunting, camping, or spending any time outdoors. He used to confiscate my knives when he'd find them and throw them into a shoe box in the closet. I had to convince him to let me have a knife when I joined Scouts. He was a white collar, working man, that spent all his free time in his garden or working on the house.

There wasn't exactly a knife tradition in my family.

I say this because I didn't come by my knife enthusiasm through any tradition. I just think of my knives as useful tools and some are beautiful works of art. But tradition never dictated what type I carried. When I was a kid I'd carry a scout knife because that's what scouts carried. Later it was jack knives because that's what my friends carried. When I started working it was one hand opening modern knives because they were convenient.

Now that I'm older it's back to traditional knives and maybe that's where nostalgia and tradition start to take root.
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Thanks for sharing that it made me think that my father wasn't a knife guy at all either. Had I not spent most of my childhood with my grandfather I likely would not have quite the passion for the older knives as I do. And maybe it isn't just the kind of knife or knife at all but the camaraderie and community associated with it. I love me some knives but what keeps me coming back to BF is the community and the people involved. For me, none of this would be nearly as rich or fulfilling as it is without The Porch.
 
waverave said:
Thanks for sharing that it made me think that my father wasn't a knife guy at all either. Had I not spent most of my childhood with my grandfather I likely would not have quite the passion for the older knives as I do. And maybe it isn't just the kind of knife or knife at all but the camaraderie and community associated with it. I love me some knives but what keeps me coming back to BF is the community and the people involved. For me, none of this would be nearly as rich or fulfilling as it is without The Porch.
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Very well said. Before the Porch, my knives were just tools or collectibles. Now the Porch has begun to give some of my knives "meaning and feeling". Before I would just toss a crappy knife, now I can see value in them or I can easily find somebody else that will find that value. I'm more apt to pass a knife along to somebody else now and find enjoyment in their happiness.
 
The cynic in me says 'conspicuous consumerism'. My more reasonable side says we have more disposable income and free time than previous generations. This situation we find ourselves in can be fed with any number of hobbies, cars, guns, boats, etc. and of course knives. And, collecting things isn't new. I had a stamp collection when a kid.
,
I have a strong suspicion that earlier generations would be shaking their heads so forcefully over so much we now take as normal they'd all have neck braces on for the strain. I do believe that that attitude is due to their upbringing, not any inherent genetic superiority. Put another way it's human nature to collect.
 
Bugdoc, that's an interesting post. I admit that I feel a lot like Jackknife about it. I carried a knife around all day and it performed two tasks: it opened a flash drive bubble package one of my students was wrestling with and it opened a much needed can of Cope on the drive home from work..... Pretty mundane work.

As far as modern grinds mentioned in the original post, I know what you mean. I see both ends and the middle on that score. The most impressive I own is the GEC 76 jack I bought for my marriage. But it's the exception not the rule.

Will
 
Good stuff guys, growing up I can’t remember anyone that had a pocket knife, it’s like I was living in a knife void world, so it’s strange that I have such a passion for knives. My grandma used to tell the story about me sitting on a curb and sharpening a pocket knife on the concrete curb, about 5 years old
So yep I have always been a bit knife crazy
G2
 
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