Oldest Traditional Knife Pattern?

J

jamesbeat

Joined
Jul 26, 2009
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I've been reading about the various slipjoint knife patterns and their histories llately, and I've had a few surprises here and there (I had no idea the peanut has been around as long as it has for instance).

I'd love to know which currently-produced pattern is the oldest?
Do we even know?

I've pored over the fantastic catalog pictures in the sticky, and I mostly saw patterns that don't seem to be available nowadays.
 
james, you may wish to ask this over at Bernard Levine's forum...I'm willing to bet he has a thought or two on the topic.

I'd wager that a friction folder was about the oldest folder...but in a slipjoint I'm not sure exactly which classic old patterns predate the "Barlow".
 
The Barlow comes to mind as a very old pattern being currently produced today. If one does an internet search, some date the Barlow back to the 1670's or there about.
 
That's a good question. I would venture to guess that friction folders have been around since Roman times, if not before. When exactly the transition from friction folders to slipjoints occurred, I can't say. The first slipjoint was probably something along the lines of a clasp or sodbuster I imagine. A simple, single bladed, shadow jack gets my vote for the oldest pattern. For a named pattern that is still in production, I would say Barlow.

edit: Dang. Looks like I was beaten to the punch by a couple of gentlemen who are much better informed on the subject than I am. :)
 
moonwilson said:
edit: Dang. Looks like I was beaten to the punch by a couple of gentlemen who are much better informed on the subject than I am. :)
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I will attest to the fact that neither Ken nor I are gentlemen nor informed. (Well, maybe Ken...:p)
 
Blues said:
I will attest to the fact that neither Ken nor I are gentlemen nor informed. (Well, maybe Ken...:p)
Click to expand...

Sipping on my first cup of coffee of the morning I was thinking the same thing. First time my name has been associated at the same time as "informed gentlemen".:eek:
 
I had a feeling it would be the barlow.
I guess it's quite a tricky thing to answer, because standard patterns are a realatively new thing.

Blues, you're probably right. I was torn between this forum and Bernard Levine's forum, but I didn't know if my question would have been appropriate there, as it was about current production knives, rather than genuine antiques.


The reason I'm asking is because I'd like to buy some of the oldest patterns, but modern production versions.
I'd like to have knives that I can use, but still feel like I'm holding a piece of history in my hand.

I already have a barlow, so what other patterns should I look at?
 
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James, your question would be on point there as well and nobody would have any heartburn over it. Feel free to pursue it and you can share the results with us here if you wish.

I would definitely add the sodbuster as a classic old pattern of the clasp style as well as the Spanish navaja.

If you get a chance to peruse the pages of BRL's "Guide" (4th Ed.) you will get a nice concise review of the various patterns and also historical info (including dates, such as was available at the time of publication) on the particular pattern and its antecedents.
 
I keep meaning to buy a copy of that book, but always end up buying knives instead :D
Now I've gained an interest in the history side of things, I guess it's about time to pony up the cash...
 
Nontrons and laguioles are both very old. Maybe 500 years for the Nontrons and 300-400 for the laguiole (?). I've seen repros of Revolutionary War clasp knives but can't speak to their quality. Navajas date to the 17th or 18th century. I think the external back spring of the Okapi dates back to the 18th century as well. I thought the Romans even had folders (written accounts but I've never seen a surviving example).

Frank
 
I used to have a Laguiole, and I absolutely hated it!
It was really expensive, but the quality was pretty low. The blade used to hit the backspring when the knife was closed.
My ex girlfriend used it to spread some Marmite (a very salty yeast extract paste) on some toast, and then dropped it down the side of the kitchen counter.
She couldn't reach it, and while she did tell me about it, I promptly forgot.
When I finally retrieved it, the marmite had corroded holes in the blade, so I took this as an excuse to throw it away...

What about less 'rustic' and more 'gentlemanly' knife patterns? I believe the senator and congress patterns are pretty old.
 
jamesbeat said:
What about less 'rustic' and more 'gentlemanly' knife patterns? I believe the senator and congress patterns are pretty old.
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I'd say that's correct -- among the "fancier" multibladed patterns, I'd say these two would be some of the oldest -- along with the crown pen pattern - basically a senator with squared bolsters - not a very attractive pattern IMO, but at one time it seems to have been popular. The crown pen may actually have preceded the round bolstered senator, since the really old knives were typically made with clean and square joints (you'll see this even in small quill jacks).

The three blade knives -- basically "whittlers" in construction, though the really old ones will have only a single wide spring -- are also an old form of multiblade, though I'm not sure they would otherwise have a pattern that became standard later. Kinda practical really - they normally had a large blade, a small blade, and a tool - often a cork hook or awl or punch.
 
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