Olive oil - hardening question

Joined
Nov 17, 1999
Messages
676
Hello folks,

1.Is olive oil suitable for hardening oil hardening blades such as 5160, 52100?
Or is only good to coat kitchen-knives to protect from rust?
2.How hard is a file (Nicholson file) when heated non-magnetic, maybe left to cool a little too long on the way from forge to oil-tub, then quenched in oil, only the first 1.5-2 cm of the edge, and then left in the oven at 200° C for two hours?

greetz and thanks, Bart.
 
Bart, I use cheap vegetable oil, olive oil should be fine, some makers use it. I really can't tell about the hardness, to many variables. I have my quench tank right next to the heat source. I check the blade after quench, with a triangle saw file, 200 seems a pretty low temper, Try the edge by flexing it against a 1/4" brass rod, if the edge stays bent, too soft, if it chips too hard. This is what I use in lou of a hardness testor.

------------------
Sola Fide
 
Bart, I also use cheap vegetable oil, but only because I don't feel I know enough yet to justify the expense of olive oil (though I'd bet that it could be obtained cheaper from restaurant supply stores in large quantities).
You might want to do some research into what kind of steel the Nicholson files are made from, then you'd have a better idea about the hardness you obtained. Offhand, if you feel you let the steel cool too much before the quench I would redo the hardening process.
My opinion only, test it and see how it works, then decide yourself. Oh, and let us know how it came out, I've got a few worn out files laying around here also.:> -Guy Thomas
 
Sam's has vegetable oil, olive oil and peanut oil (which I use) in 4-5 gal containers. Prices arn't bad either.

------------------
old pete
 
Thanks folks for the reply.

About the olive oil, I live in europe and olive oil is by far the cheapest to obtain. In fact, I have a deal with the cook of a big restaurant, and he gives me now and then a 5 liter bottle. For free so. Now I have a quench tank, a oil-barrel, but sawed off at about 30 cm high and the edged bent so I wont cut myself. It's now filled with about 20 liters. Because I have only olive oil, that's what I used but I have never heard anyone else use it.
About the file, I specified it was a Nicholson file. The stamp on the handle is "Nicholoson file bastard" or something and a drawing I can't make out. Anyone know the steel? About the knife from that, It cuts, but it does not hold an edge better then M-2
or CPM 440 V, but also not really worse. I guess still better then 440 and surely better then 420 steel.

greetz and thanks, Bart.
 
Nicholson files are W2. Check out http://www.engnath.com/ for instructions on heat treat.
I use olive oil anytime a heat treat calls for a "light oil".
The point of quenching is to take it from critical temperature to under 500f as quickly as possible. W2 should make very good blades. If it doesn't cut that well, and you let it sit before quenching, that's probably why. I'd go ahead and anneal it and go through the heat treating process again. I've forged a few blades out of W2, but I haven't finished any yet, they're still in that unfinished box. Too many irons in the fire. :>

------------------
Oz

"I'm politically opposed to the word 'Impossible'."
http://www.freespeech.org/oz/
 
Hello!

mikeS, the 200° were C = Celsius, not F = Fahrenheit. We are in Europe and count in the Metric system. 200° C are about 392° F and should be ok for a file steel temper.

Achim
 
Dave Ellis ABS, Mastersmith here- I used to use olive oil and it works quite well just be sure to totally immerse the hardening blade so that the oil does not flare up. A new file is probably rockwell 62 plus or minus. W-2 can be brought to critical (nonmagnetic) and quenched immediately in oilor water (W-2 is really a water quenching steel but light oil works fine). Try tempering at around 375 for an hour three times, you are looking for a straw color.
hope this helps,
Dave Ellis, ABS, M.S. http://www.mastersmith.com
 
redface.gif


------------------
Sola Fide
 
Thanks folks.

Your replies were certainly helpfull.
About the file knife, it worked out great.
I only tempered it once 2 hours at 230 °, and because I left it pretty thick and quenched only the first centimeters, it can be bent (I stood on the blade wrapped in duck-tape and my father stood on the handle on a concrete log) but not broken. In fact, it only bent about 15 ° when I jumped a little. I only recently lowered the edge angle, and it shaves hair even after I cut up a leather bookcase and some cardboard boxes. It's thickness makes this last one hard.
I even have my first customer for it ! It's my uncle, who keeps horses, and he currently has it as his stable-knife. Easy, and I didn't have to make a sheath. See how long it lasts cutting wood, strow, cord and other things. I told him, that if he could break off more then 2 inch I would replace it. In normal use off course. It is about 5 mm thick at 2 inch off the tip. It is about 5 inch long, full integral, with a leather wrap as handle (yes Achim, idea comes from your knife). See if I can get it back to post a scan here.
I serrated a part, on request, for cutting rope and leather. Went better then I tought with a dremel chainsaw kit and a diamond engraver.
It has another cool feature. I etched it to see if it had a temperline, and it has a steady, wavy line 2 cm steady off the edge. Very clear to see.The handle is not hardened in any way.
The edge makes a file skid, but after the line, the file bites and ends in totally soft steel at the back. It is about 1.5 " wide. it may not look good, but it is my first forged knife, and I excpected worse.
Next time I am going to try to quench the edge in water. See what that gives.
One thing was a disapointement. I nicely ground it till 220 grit, but when it came out of the oil, I could start over! It had a random pattern on it, looking like it had bloodvains under it's skin.

thanks you all for your reply. bart.
 
Bart
David Boye a legend in knife making
in his book he speaks of quenching oils
and what he uses,his choice of quench oil
is olive oil
I burns cleaner and does not leave as much clean up work as your normal quench oil
motor etc.smells alot better to
 
Back
Top