On Everest it has come down to survival of the lowest.

not2sharp

not2sharp

Platinum Member
Joined
Jun 29, 1999
Messages
20,453
From the New Zealand Press: 'Raise hell' over Everest deaths secrecy

As shocking as it may sound, recreational and professional climbers are accused of developing a tendency to walk over the bodies of the dead and injured in order to continue their climb to the top. If true then this is a sad commentary on the sort of human filth that pays to climb in high places. There are alot of well known people out there who should be ashamed of themselves.

Story Link:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3678813a11,00.html

n2s
 
Of all the links and stories brought to the Cantina for enjoyment and thought, this is among the best. not2sharp has found some great ones, but this is one of a kind. The implications of this story are profound. It is truly amazing in our 'modern society' that this has happened.
Or maybe not. Why be surprised? We just haven't changed much, is all.

40 people hiked by a dying man. I'm surprised he didn't lose his wristwatch to one of them.


munk
 
I've been thinking this issue over. It's not as clear cut as we make it out to be.

Remember, we're discussing people who are deliberately putting themselves in harm's way for fun, and anyone passing through is probably stretched pretty thin just keeping themselves alive. Do they have the resources to save someone's life?

How much aid can one reasonably be expected to provide in this case? Especially considering that there are at least a few confirmed cases of climbers dying while attempting to rescue other climbers who got in over their heads.

If someone attempts a difficult climb and they die because they're unprepared, it's not the mountain's fault, not the weather's fault, not another climber's fault and not China's fault. It's their own fault. No one made them go up.
 
I believe that an international organisation should attempt to salvage the death bodies from Mt Everest.
From the reports i have read and seen Mt Everest is littered with empty oxygen bottles, trash, climbing material and dead mountaineers.
This is due to the fact that people who spend half their life training and searching for funds are climbing the highest mountain in the world, under some of the harshest conditions found on this planet.

When they are 150 feet from the top they won't stop to resque a fellow human because it lacks them from psychical and mental strenght to do so.

What we as humans should do is send up a "clean-up" team who's goal it is NOT to reach the top of the mountain but to clean the damn mountain up.

Off course it will mean that an enormous logistical and very expensive team off top climbers has to be formed to do this.

But who would volunteer for such a mission? Beeing the "garbage man" on Mt Everest?

We should also realise that most (not all) top climbers have a big ego, and they spend a large portion of their life doing amazing stuff. They try to be the first (insert sex, nationality, sexual preference, possible handicaps) to accomplish such a fantastic achievement.

They will try to achieve something no other human did before, not to be a "garbage man" on Mt Everest.
 
This kind of worthlessness is not unique.
Take Texas A&M for example.

When UTAs ROTC Ranger Challenge group attended the Ranger Challenge Contest at Fort Hood, The A&M group left one of their own who had collapsed under a tree with some extra water during the 10 mile ruck run.
(This is South Texas in the Summer)
When the UTA guys saw him, they recognized that he was in heat shock and called for medevac, staying with him and cooling him with their own water.
He was in the hospital for a week. His brain had started to swell, I think they said, and would have died were it not for the UTA team saving him.

The A&M team won the race, but their "corps" earned themselves a black mark that will never be forgotten.
 
Dave-
No one had to risk their lives climbing to the guy- he was not that far up and 40 people passed him.

The old man of the mountain, Edmund Hillary, had nothing but disgust for their actions- what does that tell you?



munk
 
I have never done any climbing that required supplemental oxygen, but I have gone up several Colorado 14ers. Climbing at even that altitude has an effect that, unless you have experienced it, cannot be comprehended. The lack of oxygen doesn't so much obscure rational thought as much as obliterate it. And nothing works right -- all five senses are positively "ringing" from the altitude.

That said, if I ever passed a climber that was in distress and needed assistance, the summit would become a distant second priority. That is assuming that I saw him, and could actually get to him without risking my own life. In the wild (especially at very high altitudes), heroic and foolish rescue attempts often become the next SAR case... or worse, the next fatality.

Keep in mind, guys, Everest is about as un-Earthlike as any place on Earth. And is probably being climbed by a lot of un or underqualified people. I don't know that Hillary's take is necessarily realistic. He was quite a climber -- many of these folks probably are not.
 
For heavens sakes- I'm not going hiking with Rishar or Broken H. If 14000 feet bothers you, you weren't properly acclimated beforehand.

40 people, saw him and passed by.
40

Rationalizing this away is typical of our Age. Very few value lines drawn anymore.

REally- I wanted his pocket watch- he didn't need it anymore.
Who is to say he didn't want me to have it? It may have been 'meant' to happen this way. He climbed all that way just to give it to me


munk
 
"Hey." I said. There was no response.
"Hey!" A bit more sharply this time, I kicked him in the ribs.
"M-munk, is that you?"
"It's me. Is there something I can do?"
"Well.." His eyes drifted downslope and then back up at me.
"Uh-huh," I told him, 'you'd kill us both."
He nodded his head. He understood. A little more blood spilled out his mouth.
"Look," I told him, "your coat and shoes..."
"Go ahead, take them. I can't feel the cold anymore anyway."
I rolled him over then removed the Parka.
"Baby needs new shoes," I said as I unlaced them.
He coughed up a little more blood. Some of the droplets stuck to my coat before freezing.
"Hey- watch that." I said.
"Sorry."
We sat a moment. His white flesh glistened like a dead fish in the bright sunlight.
"I am kinda hungry."
"Say no more." He nodded, "I think the left backstrap still has a little good meat."
"OK." I looked at him again when I was done.
"You know, the adrenal gland will fetch a good price on the Oriental market."
"It's depleted; I don't think you can use it."
"Naw-". They always think it's depleted until the first cut.
He was pretty done in after that. I got the legal pad out.
"Just sign here," I told him. I helped his hand trace over the document. Standard deed form to the house. I was going to make this all legit,after all.

'Well..." I gestured down the mountain. "See ya." Only he didn't hear me. What's the use? He was a goner.



munk
 
Did any of you see the movie "vertical limit"? This sounds like the plot from that movie. A rich guy wants to climb Everest to use the climb to hype his product, while climbing people get in trouble and he leaves them to die. The old climber nobody respects comes to the fore and saves the day. Rich guy never makes it to the top. etc. etc. (but the movie is better than I'm saying).
Bottom line here is this: We all do what we do for different reasons, and we all have different values. Rather than debate that fact, use your free will to choose what YOU will do, and like Munk says, who you will do it with. Above all, do your homework and find out about the people you are about to stake your life on. The few climbers I have met seemed like decent people, nothing like the sterotype of the arrogant, proud climber who thinks everyone else is junk except him. Still, before I signed on, there would have to be some deep conversations. If no one was willing to have the conversations, that would tell me all I need to know also.
In the end, you are responsible for you.
If I had the free time, I would go on the Everest cleanup trip in a minute. It's the only way I would ever meet the HI kamis in person!
 
The Abysmal Snow Man Reclamation Company

"We Pick Up What They Can't Use"

>>>>>>

Maybe you could charge a million bucks per body to the bereaved families.
They say one out of three don't make it, but of course, many of those are unclaimable.


munk
 
Have you ever seen videos of the environment that exists where that man was dying? It was 100 below zero when they passed him. 100 below! Most at that stage are doing everything in their power just to stay alive themselves. If they had comitted to helping him, they could have just as easilly beeen signing their own death warrants. Since most if not all of these climbs are led in one way or another, I am sure a decision was made and they followed for the sake of everyones' life. It is not an easy decision and it may sound scummy, but its probably the truth. I dont feel so great about hearing about this kind of thing, but that is such an extreme situation and environment, i am willing to give them the benefit of doubt here and say that I cant imagine myself doing it, but I cant claim that I would have stopped, either, because I wasnt there. Theres a reason they leave bodies up there and its because most would die bringing them down. If he wasnt going down on his own accord, and its a death sentence to try to bring him down from that zone, why is everyone so astonished?

Would anyone here have been the "hero" and sat with him while he died? You probably would have been the second corpsicle sitting right next to him the following morning, from what I hear.

This isnt a weekend jaunt. A scary percentage die in final ascent. I would argue that most hikers at this level would prefer to be left as-is rather than expect others to risk almost certain death just to sit and watch them die when little to nothing could be done.

Just because a legend finds it horrific doesnt mean he is right or that he was there that day. Im somewhat amazed at his reaction, to be honest.
 
Yep -- 40 people walked by him. 40. Would 40 people walk by someone who needed help on the side of the street without rendering assistance? (Maybe in NYC, but not in too many other places.) What does that tell us?

It tells us that Mt. Everest ain't the side of the street, and side of the street rules don't necessarily apply. Reread the article, Munk. People die trying to help other people who wind up dying anyway up there. Now there're two corpses up that have to be removed someday instead of one.

Don't want to die? Aren't sure of your abilities? Stay off Everest. It's dangerous.

The attempt to confuse issues with references to looting was uncalled for. :thumbdn:
 
Yep this is a classic situation....if you drove by a rocket fuel plant that was on fire, would you run inside to see if everyone was out safe? If you run in and save someone, youre a big hero! If you run inside and it was empty and you die, youre a big moron! If you turn around and drive away as fast as possible to save yourself, everyone calls you a coward and pounds their chest as if they would have been the bigger man. Everyone gets tested eventually and i dont believe a word out of anyone's mouth until they are put in that situation and make the choice for real.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top