on "thick buttcaps"

firkin

firkin

Joined
Jan 26, 2002
Messages
2,737
This issue makes a re-appearance periodically, as in one of the current threads about those "other" khuks (and advocates).

Many of the early HI khuks had buttcaps of such appearance, often decorated, but they are hollow,cup-like, soldered constructions, not a solid plate. Almost like the bolsters, or a capped ferrule.


Some of the old-timers probably can add more, but the short version is, that they were often constructed of thinner stock than currently used, and due to imperfect fit/finish or handle material shrinkage were potential irritants, especially on shorter handles. Plus, they severly limited the amount of handle re-profiling that could be done, especially if constructed of thinner stock.

Bill apparently went through quite a hassle to get the current type of buttcap consistently produced, but he was convinced that it needed to be done to make a better product, even if ascethics suffered.

From an archived thread:

"Kami has instituted a couple of changes in shop 2. One is the buttcap. The traditional buttcap is the biggest source of complaint and of failure. It is too sharp because of the eye shape, it likes to come loose because it is hard to fit with the boiling Himalayan epoxy, and it is basically just too flimsy to be of much use. Even the scrolled two piece HI buttcap made at shop 1 although not flimsy is subject to digging into the hand and loosening. So shop 2 khukuris will have a buttcap like the Gangaola khukuri. A somewhat thick brass plate with a sort of Z shaped keeper. This cap is anchored in two places to the handle and is held in place by the mushroomed tang. It will not dig into the hand and will not loosen -- a major improvement. And, it is traditional but harks back to an older tradition."

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125294&highlight=scrolled+buttcap


A search for "scrolled buttcap" will turn up others.

Can't say that that is the way those "other" khuks are constructed, but it seems most likely. And, among their selection, some khuks have the plate-like cap, some lack a full buttcap, and some have what appears to be the soldered-construction buttcap.

Hmmm, sorta like HI, except HI decided that the soldered construction buttcap wasn't worth the problems.
 
Thanks for the insight, Firkin.

I knew Yangdu would run things differently. I just didn't know how. Well, she said the traditional bolsters are coming. That's simply tremendous, as most of you have wanted that for so long. But let's be very careful in what we wish for, so we don't end up doing all over again some of the things Bill and the Kamis already figured out.







munk
 
Important insight from an intelligent, collegial and first-rate forum historian.
Give him some rep, he is a good guy - in my book.
 
Not insight, I just have a memory that resembles the yard in "Sanford and Son". Started lurking here when a few of those older Shop 1 khuks were still talked about or appearing.

"But let's be very careful in what we wish for, so we don't end up doing all over again some of the things Bill and the Kamis already figured out."


I sure Yangdu remembers this stuff, but it is probably best to really carefully think things out before going to far towards asking for a change. And not to bug her with stuff that already is well-sorted for good reason.

A few well-fitted soldered buttcaps from thicker stock came through, but it wasn't worth it.

The HI logo khuk was provided as the example, and it happened to have that style of buttplate, so they initially made all the khuks with that kind of buttplate.

If the ferrule-like portion to the buttcap isn't properly fitted to the handle, all the possible problems with bolster fit will show up at the back end, and possibly interfere with really peening the tang down. Just another fit/finish problem, there are enough already.

It CAN be done right, but it is more work.... for what?
 
Josh Feltman said:
I like big and I can not lie
You other brothers can't deny...
Click to expand...


Then you must like the Chitlangi and Chainpuri with those G-string plates??

Or do you prefer a little more mystery as to what is under a full size plate?
 
Josh Feltman said:
I like big butts and I can not lie
You other brothers can't deny...
Click to expand...

You must spread some more rep around or something before yadda yadda yadda...

Water for Firkin, but Josh's planter is full.

What does Sir Mix-a-Lot have to do with khukuris? Everything!

I like traditional just fine until it gets in my way, then I'm all about change. Durability and performance are my main concerns. Once tradition ceases to equate to conveniance, I'm no longer interested.

Thick steel buttplates have always been my preference. You can't really polish them but they stand up to hammering much better than brass or white metal. I suspect (but can't prove, really) that a thick steel buttcap improves the balance just enough to make me notice without noticing, thus generating a favorable opinion from me.

Of course, not everyone hammers on things with their buttcaps...but when you have to, it's better if you're not wincing on each impact. (Like I do with brass.) It helps if you tell yourself that you're just peening the tang a bit more.
 


Satori said:

Thick steel buttplates have always been my preference...
Click to expand...


Satori, you should see this one then- from the 7/22 YDD, arrived 7/25.

I'll review this gem & post pix later in the week.... but I'll say this: everything good about the Pen Knife is even better when it's a steel-fitting villager. Nice dark sat. wood, soaking up Ballistol® now. Sharp out of box, excellent full size K&C.

Won't scare sheeple but delivers a khukuri chop. This is the funny thing- it's footprint is that of a regular sheath knife- but you get the benefit of having a khuk. Useful.

Half-hearted test chop cut a box almost too far. Yeah, it's sharp. Marked UB in Devangari but need to compare markings with villager triholed cho BAS. Think they have same parentage. Bura mark but different stamp than high-end HI products.


Ad Astra

Satori, I thought about sending you this PK to torture test, but after you chopped up some granite blocks and micron resharpened it, it would probably resemble a Trisul. :eek: :footinmou :D :cool:
 
From Firkin's original post:

"...make a better product, even if ascethics suffered."

Did you mean 'aesthetics', or was it a run-together of 'ascetic ethics'? Subtle shade o'meaning difference, though either works in that sentence... :)
 
qubehead said:
From Firkin's original post:

"...make a better product, even if ascethics suffered."

Did you mean 'aesthetics', or was it a run-together of 'ascetic ethics'? Subtle shade o'meaning difference, though either works in that sentence... :)
Click to expand...


Yes. (I can't spell or type for beans.....)

Ya got me, actually, I meant aesthetics.

But I suppose that someone who clings to particular design features, believing them to be intrinsically superior, defining the proper use of many, the one true way, and refuses to contemplate that changes or even different features of similar linneage might be as good or better could be called an ascetic if one was feeling generous. (But not if they get boozed up and act like jerks.)
 
firkin said:
Yes. (I can't spell or type for beans.....)

Ya got me, actually, I meant aesthetics.

But I suppose that someone who clings to particular design features, believing them to be intrinsically superior, defining the proper use of many, the one true way, and refuses to contemplate that changes or even different features of similar linneage might be as good or better could be called an ascetic if one was feeling generous. (But not if they get boozed up and act like jerks.)
Click to expand...
Okay, okay.:rolleyes:
Y'all made me run to my online dictionary to understand these.:o I had somewhat the meaning of aesthetics but had never ran into ascetic before. Thanks for the ongoing education.:D :cool: :D
 
The new model villager Penknife is exactly what I think it should be. I think it's a perfect rendition of the Penknife. Everything a camper needs: a chopper, a cutter, a digger and a flap-jack flipper ;) in a package that's packable and doesn't look too intimidating in its sheath. I'm thinking of covering the sheath in thin brown pigskin to make look less military.
 
I almost missed it. A new forumese word: "ascethic." Thanks Firkin. :D
IMO it means a minimum amount of visual interest or beauty. Other interpretations...???
Is someone keeping track of these semantic antics? :confused:
 
That was one of the few complaints I had about the khukuris, the scrolled buttcap would come loose, I would vastly prefer a solid slab of plain metal, regardless of how authentic the design. I never had a handle problem due to a loose buttcap, I just never liked it rattling around.

-Cliff
 
Ad Astra said:
Click to expand...

Now that's what I'm talking about...strictly business.

For the record, I've only had a few buttcaps ever come loose. A few whacks on the end of the tang with a five pound sledge solved the problem permanently.
 
Bill used to speak of a special style made by one of his first kamis, Kanchi Kami. It had a thick, (maybe 1") brass buttcap. As I recall it was one of Kanchi Kami's knives that played in the bear story.

I've always wondered about the balance of those knives.

Bill held them in high regard.
 
Welcome back, Howard.

Sometimes it amazes me what even an ounce will do for a weapon's balance when it's put in the right place. Firearms, knives, swords...it doesn't matter. Adding weight to make a weapon feel lighter seems counterintuitive. Bit different with most firearms, now that I think about it - usually the weight goes up forward to make it feel heavier than it really is - but the concept is the same.
 
I have a Pen knife that looks just like Ad Astra's model. It weighs only about 11 oz. A third coat of Watco Danish oil is now drying, and I'll check it out after a few days.
Incidentally, Watco continues to "shine" at a sealer for horn handles. I used it on horn some time ago on two Sirupatis - still no cracking.
 
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