One burner heat treating forge from an artillery shell: Possible?

Knifemaker87

Knifemaker87

Joined
Jan 2, 2006
Messages
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i was looking at Jesus Hernandez’s site and saw a picture of his sword heat treating forge. it has only one burner in one end. i make much smaller blades, is it possible to make a smaller diameter forge with a home made burner after the same design? i happen to have a couple 5" artillery shells. could i use one to make a forge to heat treat knives similar tot the one in the picture?

hernandez's forge:
htforge1.jpg


my shell:
IMG_1173.jpg


to sum up if this is a possibility....

what do the flame dynamics inside need to be to get an even heat for the blade??
how fancy of a burner would i need to heat something this size??
How much insulation do I need to get?
do i need to seal it? and if so how much of what?
any idea where i can get a cheap thermocouple and reader that woud work for this heat?

thanks!
~Chris
 
I don't see why you couldn't. I just built one from a 120mm mortar tube. It's approximately 8" in diamater. I put 2" of Inswool lining in it to make a smaller chamber. Worked good just using a Bernzomatic JTH-7 torch and propane. Going to try it soon with either a forced air or venturi burner.

Get some Inswool lining from Darren Ellis and some satanite to coat it with. It'll work real good then.

The lining will keep the outside from heating up. With mine running full bore for 20 minutes I can touch the outside of the forge with my bare hand without burning.

Charles
 
at least 2 inches of wool? do i need that much you think? can i get away with a little less so as to alow me to fit my blades in there? i clay temper most of mine.

i am looking at building a basic tube burner to stick in the end... we shall see!

with a tube burner, all i have to do is stick it in one end and make sure that i have an opening at the other end (well duh)

where in the end should i ahve the burner? just copy what i see in the picture of jesus's?
thanks
~Chris
 
Knifemaker87 said:
at least 2 inches of wool? do i need that much you think? can i get away with a little less so as to alow me to fit my blades in there? i clay temper most of mine.

i am looking at building a basic tube burner to stick in the end... we shall see!

with a tube burner, all i have to do is stick it in one end and make sure that i have an opening at the other end (well duh)

where in the end should i ahve the burner? just copy what i see in the picture of jesus's?
thanks
~Chris
Click to expand...

I used 2" because of the diamater of the tube I was using. I can heat up to a 2" wide blade in there pretty easily, probably wider if I needed. 1" should work just fine. Just didn't want a huge chamber to have to heat up.

Most forges I've seen have the burner coming in from the side. One end closed and the other open with a way to block off that opening more to conserve heat. I think the reasoning is to get the heat evenly inside. I would be concerned with it coming in from one end that the other end might not get as hot. I may be way off on that though.

Mine has the burner going in from the side.

Charles
 
where is the burner placed? in the middle? or at one end? or what?
i am having major proplems with my square forge right now... it has two burners.... but that means it is never even. how long can the forge be?
thanks
~Chris
 
Mine is just slightly forward of center. I've seen quite a few that were more like 3/4 of the way forward.

My forge is only 10" long. If I find in the future I need more I will just build a longer one with 2 burners. How much and what type of insulation do you have? That could make a difference.

Charles
 
well... as of right now i have no isulation at all. but i am looking at 25 feet of #6, 1" kaowool. then get the stuff that you put on it and a burner from ellis... that in a 5" shell that cut to about 20 inches. with one end welded shut...
what i am looking for is a set up that will allow me to both forge and heat treat. i dont care as mucha botu heat uniformity during forgine.. but during heat treating it would be really nice...
thanks
~Chris
 
if you look at the pics of my forge and of indian georges forge you will see that we both put ours on the side at about a 10 oclock position. but on mine i have one end closed. if i were you i would mount it on the side so that the heat swirls around. if you need the link to indian georges forge design and tutorial let me know. i might have it in my thread about my forge pics.
 
5" is just too small a chamber to work in. 8" is about the practical minimum. You need room for the wool and the satanite. Then you need the flame to be able to swirl around. Oh, and you need room for the blade. A 5" shell with 1" insulation would give you a little less than 3" chamber. More than a one brick forge, but still not enough for a proper chamber.
Go 8-10" and you will be much happier. Use an old water tank from a HW heater, a propane tank,a 5gal. paint can, a garbage can, whatever. The body is not much more than a container for the insulation.

Stacy
 
okay.... so the 5" is out.. thats fine.. i will find something else.

so i got the wool and everything. i am getting a forced air burner from Darren Ellis... where is the best place to put the burner? i want the body of the thing long enough to forge long knives. preferably wakazashi length with one burner. can it be done? if so... where at in the forge?
thanks
~Chris
 
A long forge is usually run with three or more burner ports. Good thing is you probably don't need one.
Forging a wakazaski or even a katana is done one section at a time, so a long forge is not needed. A piece of 10" pipe, 12-16" long with two inches of wool,and a hole in the back, will do fine for anything ,even an o-dachi. A single blown burner should enter the forge from the side at an angle to create a swirl around the chamber. Place it 1/3 back from the front with a 15 degree angle toward the back. This will give a fairly even heat to the entire forge chamber. The hole in the back can have an insu-board door to close it when forging smaller blades. The back hole only needs to be about 2X2". A front hole of 3X3" is also plenty. If you make the end pieces from insu-board, you can change the holes as needed.
Dominion Recycling, in Hampton, usually has 10 or 12" stainless pipe.
Stacy
 
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