Only for filipinos about escrima

Federico

Federico

Joined
Sep 5, 2000
Messages
1,522
I hate to exclude other people but this has to do with the legitimacy of american "escrima/arnis/kali". I have been thinking about taking classes and have discussed it with my dad. He is pretty adament that I shouldn't waste my money on it. The way he describes escrima is rather different than what most of the websites I have found describe it. He calls it literaly fencing (and I know in spanish escrima literally does mean fencing). As for arnis he says its just karate with sticks and that if I really want to learn arnis I should just take karate. I think he is being rather harsh especially since both his father and his grandfather could fight really well with baston. Any opinions on his gripes with Arnis/escrima? And are those Dan insonato schools any good? Why I've been askingis cause Ive been comparing stuff between what Mark V. Wiley, "Filipino Martial Culture" has said with my dad, and so far he is not impressed. What really gets him and my other uncles is the section devoted to U.S. masters. They don't like these U.S. schools. However, Im not sure if this dislike is coming from my dad's dislike of his visayan heritage. He grew up in Manila, but all his family is from cebu and visayas. Especially when he talks about his grandfather trying to teach him arnis he shrugs it off as non-effective.

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mabuhay
 
Federico, you should probably check out the nearest school near you and how they practice because some schools are very structured (belts, ranks, specific moves for specific levels etc.) or very loose (no salutes, less on rank more on skill etc.)
Basically, try to find what's good for you.

Beyond this, it's hard because we don't know you or your dad personally. Escrima isn't Western fencing and some teachers like to combine FMA with another art.

Perhaps your dad has some issues with FMA, maybe he wants to teach you, or like some folks he might want you to get a "gun and forget about it". That way you can eat some lechon, drink some San Miguel, and carry a .45 like Fernando Poe.
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[This message has been edited by Smoke (edited 09-06-2000).]
 
Oh lord, Fernando Poe and the infamous .45. Whats with Filipinos and this caliber gun. As for my dad he did learn japanese karate and a little judo formally while he was in the Philippines. One thing though he left the country in 1969, but my uncle who immigrated to the states in 1983 is less harsh about arnis than my dad is, but he agrees with him on his doubts about US schools. Theres alota mistrust in them they grew up in Manila. My grandfather (their dad) was a decorated cop working in the Tondo (I have a feeling Im misspelling the word)barrio for most of his working life, and two of my uncles followed suit. Its kinda strange cause all my family downplays Filipino culture (not to say they arent proud to be Filipino) in favor of Western culture. Im not sure if it was the times they were living in or indicative of anything. Anyways they do look at knives and hand to hand fighting as a kids past-time that most men know and are somewhat decent at. Its funny, when I got my first balisong and asked them to show me how to use it, it was like they were playing with a yo-yo (in the sense there was no seriousness or practicality in their viewpoint of balisong usage). Every other Filipino I know takes pride in knowing some martial arts, yet its not a real status thing (its kinda like playing basketball, you play for fun but your no in the NBA). It seems taken for granted that you know how to fight, as if you are born fighting out the womb. However they do love their guns. I remember my dad telling me a story when he finally graduated college in Manila, one of his proudest moments was when he could afford to buy a gun. Oh well.

[This message has been edited by Federico (edited 09-06-2000).]
 
He calls it literaly fencing (and I know in spanish escrima literally does mean fencing.)
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I was told escrima/eskrima means skirmish.
As for arnis he says its just karate with sticks and that if I really want to learn arnis I should just take karate. I think he is being rather harsh especially since both his father and his grandfather could fight really well with baston. Any opinions on his gripes with Arnis/escrima?
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Your father sounds like someone who does not know nor appreciate his culture.
What really gets him and my other uncles is the section devoted to U.S. masters. They don't like these U.S. schools.
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Who says you have to be Filipino to be good at a Filipino Art. This is ridiculous! You have non-Filipinos who have a greater love for the art than Filipinos. There are Filipinos that don't even know what Eskrima/Kali/Arnis is. Plus, if your father and you uncles dislike these U.S. schools why don't they do something about it. Put their money where their mouths are.

I am a Filipino and proud to be one. Thinking and statements like these really piss me off.


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http://www.fullcontacthi.com
"Fools rush in where angels fear to tread"
 
Federico, the .45 is a remnant of the War. Even though there was a British gun company years before.

Perhaps it's training methods of the US and PI that don't look attractive. I've read that a lot of old masters sparred without gear and lumps were the standard. I'd be afraid of the arthritis factor personally.

MasGuru and Kuntawman should have interesting comments on training methods and evolution of the arts. BTW, did you know MasGuru is the only FMA stylist to appear on Ricki Lake?

Re: US culture in favor. Well that's a whole other thread/essay/dissertation/chapter of a book. Obviously, the commonality being the opportunities for one's family over here. As opposed to say oh Smokey Mountain.

 
Kumusta ka. (geez I guess you may or not be tagalog) Where in the Philippines are you from? Well anyways I think his mistrust comes from a doubt that there are any real schools in the US. He acknowledges that arnis is real in the Philippines especially in visayas and Cebu where his family roots are, but has doubts about the more commercial schools. My dad grew up in a time when tribal stuff was considered backwards (hell if you subscribe to Filipinas alot of Filipinos still have mistrust for the indigenous cultural past). Anyways I dont know many Filipinos myself that know much about arnis, or like arnis. The city Im living in has a sizable Filipino community except virtually none of them are involved in the twenty schools that teach escrima/arnis/kali in the city. Ive really only seen it mentioned here in the US and thats why I want a Filipino opinion on the matter. If I learned anything about being Filipino is that there are alota street smart guys out there looking to make a buck. Anyways alotta the stuff I have seen and read is very different from the arnis/escrima my dad has shown me, initial stance is the same but the moves are extremely clumsy. Im not saying he is any good at arnis, he only had a little training with his grandfather before his grandfather died, but I trust him not to lie to me. He is very old-fashioned, and old, jeez he left PI in 69 before alotta orginizations took off.
 
I think the fear of bumps and stuff is a US thing. I know when my dad was still healthy he would always wack me good with a stick when we would spar (now he is careful to call this escrima and not arnis, and he did not consider it martial training but playing with his son). Even now he still gets me when we go at it (though I have to say now that hes older he doesnt hit as hard anymore). Anyways he likes to talk about his old school in japanese karate in manila way back when. The ways he describes it, alotta full-contact no pads type of stuff. Lots of tournaments and maki-waras (not sure if I spelling this right). Im glad I never went there cause my ass would just be way to beaten.
Originally posted by Smoke:
Federico, the .45 is a remnant of the War. Even though there was a British gun company years before.

Perhaps it's training methods of the US and PI that don't look attractive. I've read that a lot of old masters sparred without gear and lumps were the standard. I'd be afraid of the arthritis factor personally.

MasGuru and Kuntawman should have interesting comments on training methods and evolution of the arts. BTW, did you know MasGuru is the only FMA stylist to appear on Ricki Lake?

Re: US culture in favor. Well that's a whole other thread/essay/dissertation/chapter of a book. Obviously, the commonality being the opportunities for one's family over here. As opposed to say oh Smokey Mountain.
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Kumusta na, Federico.
Your father may feels that Japanese styles are more appropriate since they had an organized method of teaching during the time he was training. If you look at FMA styles prior to the '70s there was little or no structure. Students went to the master's house and were trained in an almost casual manner. For some people organization means better.
As for his doubts about US schools, look at it in another light. You said that your family downplays Filipino culture in favor of a Western one. That is a supersessionistic attitude in play. Now apply that to how he was taught and how FMA is taught today. How would you feel if you were in his shoes? Add to it that his son wants to train the new way. No one likes to be one-upped.
My suggestion is you thank your dad for his opinion but tell him that you just want to explore your "roots" in various ways and this is one of them. Them go to different schools and observe. Ask questions about why they do the things they do. Just don't tell one school you went to another and saw that they did this or that 'cause then it may become a school/style bashing explanation rather than an informative one. Experience FMA for yourself rather than relying on books or someone else experiences. You might kick yourself for it later on if you don't
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The Kid
 
maraming salamat (sorry my tagalog has never been good guess thats what you get when your dad speeks visayan and your mom speaks illacano and the only way for them to speak to eachother is in tagalog or english). I have a feeling your onto something. I have been considering studying martial arts again but havent decided yet. That darn Tae Bo stuff has infected too many schools in my area so many are trying to add some form of tae bo to their credentials. Part of my search stems from the idea of finding a traditional form of training versus "americanized" training. I have so far favoured Korean martial arts, but I am interested in finding something closer to who I am. So far my search has narrowed down to a "Dan Inosato certified" school near my house. All the other places seem to have adopted that darn Tae Bo to their regimen (I know that they may be legitimate as hell but the notion that I may have to do Tae Bo disturbs me). Any thoughts on Dan Inosato schools? That whole Bruce Lee association kinda throws me off (hate to say it Im not a big Bruce Lee fan). Ive sparred with other Filipinos, they have had strange styles but none of them talk much about FMA. My dads family has alota machismo, and consider themselves to be "tough guys", but all of them encourage me to do something other than FMA. According to them I should learn something else well, and then move onto FMA if I really want to. Any opinions?
Originally posted by Kali-Kid:
Kumusta na, Federico.
Your father may feels that Japanese styles are more appropriate since they had an organized method of teaching during the time he was training. If you look at FMA styles prior to the '70s there was little or no structure. Students went to the master's house and were trained in an almost casual manner. For some people organization means better.
As for his doubts about US schools, look at it in another light. You said that your family downplays Filipino culture in favor of a Western one. That is a supersessionistic attitude in play. Now apply that to how he was taught and how FMA is taught today. How would you feel if you were in his shoes? Add to it that his son wants to train the new way. No one likes to be one-upped.
My suggestion is you thank your dad for his opinion but tell him that you just want to explore your "roots" in various ways and this is one of them. Them go to different schools and observe. Ask questions about why they do the things they do. Just don't tell one school you went to another and saw that they did this or that 'cause then it may become a school/style bashing explanation rather than an informative one. Experience FMA for yourself rather than relying on books or someone else experiences. You might kick yourself for it later on if you don't
wink.gif
.

The Kid
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Guro Inosanto is one of the most knowledgable people i have ever met on the Filipino Martial Arts. The Lacost system is so indepth, and combined with lameco and viliibrao there is'nt much missing. I am great friends with Ron balicki and Diana Inosanto and am certified by them. They have taken me to a level i never dreamed of.You dont need to go to the Philipines to get great Filipino training. If there is a Guro Inosanto certified instructor by you go.There is a difference though between a seminar certified instructor and a person who went to the school and got certified, bith are good but the later is better, hope this helps. Guro dan the way to go.
 
hello, nice to meet you.

i feel sorry for any pinoys who does not have pride in his own culture, or any person who has no pride. what this does is prove the western powers strength over the pilipino, that he can left his country and 100 years later, the pilipino still looks down to his own culture.

i hope that you can just accept that your parents are one of those pilipinos who was brought up to look down to there countrymen and now they really dont care about what goes on over there. all you have to tell me was that you are from manila, because many pilipinos from there who relocated to the u.s. have that same attitude. i am willing to bet that your family does not send money home...but, for some people it is hard to have pride in a country who is being run by currupted people for more than 500 years. when pilipinos come here and get rich, the least they can do is help there family at home take care of themself, and to teach there kids to do the same thing when they get old already.

back to the fighting arts. i can understand why your dad said that you cannot find arnis here like in the philippines. that is almost true. but there are so many teachers who are here and teaching like they teach at home. the problem is if you want to feed your family, you have to teach it the way people here in the u.s. want to learn it, so people change. mr. ernesto presas in 1988 told to me he would never teach a seminar or videos like remy, he even has a separate set of learning for foreingers and pilipinos. today, i hear that he is now using videos, books and seminars all over canada and the u.s., where in 1988 he refused some people who came to his place because they were not humble. many teachers in the p.i., if you quit, they will not take you back. but here, students will quit and when they came back you need the money, so you take them.

in the philippines, you can take your time and show techniques slowly, and make them do them 1,000 times before you go to the next one. here, you will not have any students if you do it that way. in the philippines, when you learn your numbers, like 1-12, you might learn them one or two at a time, then it takes you almost 4 to 5 months or longer to learn all 12. not here. you get 1-12 then all the counters, then variations, then disamrings all in one day.

in the philippines your teacher will _make_ you practice or you can get punished. here, when you complete your certain number of seminars and can show it back to the teacher what you learned, you will become certified, even if you suck. i saw an ad from vunak in a magazine last month, he will certify you in ONE WEEKEND!!!! never in the p.i., like they say, "only in america". in the philippines a teacher is to careful if a guy who sucks will represent him, unless he is famous. this is why every time a man with many students or he is popular goes to the philippines, he can find a "master" in a barrio somewhere with a style nobody heard of it before, and this guy will certify him. but if he was from the philippines instead, the old man would not give it to him.

in the philippines other teachers challenge each other or they have there students fight each other. you KNOW they dont do that here. i have been here in california for 2 years, and everybody i have sparred with are karate, jujitsu, judo, kung fu or tae kwon do. why? because they had to fight to get there black belt, so they are not scared to fight.

now, i am not saying you cannot find good philippine martial art here in the u.s. it is just not the same way. what city are you in? i recommend the best popular ones to find are doce pares, balintawak, and pekiti tirsia. if you choose that, 9 out of 10 you wont go wrong. if you are in new york, try bakbakan also or sayoc style.

i disagree with your dad that philippine martial arts dont work, because if you are in a fighting base style, you cant go wrong. karate was fine for 1960s, but today you have to find one that keeps up with the times to get a good one.

email me, i would like to talk to you: thekuntawman@yahoo.com
 
Id like to clear up this notion that my dad does not like the Philippines or being Filipino. He has been very active in the Filipino community both here in the states and in PI. As for helping his family there, he is the one that sponsored all my family in the states. As for my cousins that are still there he has sent half of them to school, bought his brothers a house in Queson City, a car, etc... He works hard for Filipino causes. If anything, I am upset that his family in the Philippines doesnt appreciate all that he has done for them. He has provided them with more oppurtunity than I have been alotted. For my schooling I am trying to take loans and work full time, but am still unsure of where the rest of the money will come from. Right now he is dying and they still ask for money, which he can no longer give as hospital bills are rather high. I would like to say that alot his dislike of the Philippines is that he is saddened by the corruption and poverty that is still endemic to the country. Normally he will not speak of this outloud so as not to cast shame onto the country but it something that he privately is saddened by. There is still much difference upon what I am labeling Filipino culture and what he labels as Filipino culture. I would like to say his dislike of Filipino culture deals only with the bad and not the good. Aka he dislikes corruption and isolation, he dislikes Filipinos that want to make a buck when it means that they hurt others, he dislikes un-religious Filipinos, etc... He has worked hard to get where he is. He grew up in rough areas of Manila and prospered. Because he doubts the merits of commercial schools of arnis does not mean he hates being pinoy. It means he takes more stock in his own experiences than that of others. If a Filipino does not believe in Anting-antings does this mean that they are not taking pride in being Filipino? If a Filipino does not believe in arnis does this mean he has no pride in being Filipino? If he feels that their should be a modernization of Filipino economies and not a regression into a country where all Filipinos do is make carvings does this mean he has no pride in being Filipino? If he feels that he does not have to wear a barong tagalog everyday does this mean he does not take pride in being Filipino? How do you quantify being a good Filipino? Does it mean you say all is merry with every aspect of the Philippines? Do you say that all Filipinos are the same? Is there a rulebook to being Filipino? I would compare his love of being Filipino to that of the love of the father and the prodigal son. The father will always love the son, but that does not mean he condones everything that the son does.
Originally posted by thekuntawman:
hello, nice to meet you.

i feel sorry for any pinoys who does not have pride in his own culture, or any person who has no pride. what this does is prove the western powers strength over the pilipino, that he can left his country and 100 years later, the pilipino still looks down to his own culture.

i hope that you can just accept that your parents are one of those pilipinos who was brought up to look down to there countrymen and now they really dont care about what goes on over there. all you have to tell me was that you are from manila, because many pilipinos from there who relocated to the u.s. have that same attitude. i am willing to bet that your family does not send money home...but, for some people it is hard to have pride in a country who is being run by currupted people for more than 500 years. when pilipinos come here and get rich, the least they can do is help there family at home take care of themself, and to teach there kids to do the same thing when they get old already.

back to the fighting arts. i can understand why your dad said that you cannot find arnis here like in the philippines. that is almost true. but there are so many teachers who are here and teaching like they teach at home. the problem is if you want to feed your family, you have to teach it the way people here in the u.s. want to learn it, so people change. mr. ernesto presas in 1988 told to me he would never teach a seminar or videos like remy, he even has a separate set of learning for foreingers and pilipinos. today, i hear that he is now using videos, books and seminars all over canada and the u.s., where in 1988 he refused some people who came to his place because they were not humble. many teachers in the p.i., if you quit, they will not take you back. but here, students will quit and when they came back you need the money, so you take them.

in the philippines, you can take your time and show techniques slowly, and make them do them 1,000 times before you go to the next one. here, you will not have any students if you do it that way. in the philippines, when you learn your numbers, like 1-12, you might learn them one or two at a time, then it takes you almost 4 to 5 months or longer to learn all 12. not here. you get 1-12 then all the counters, then variations, then disamrings all in one day.

in the philippines your teacher will _make_ you practice or you can get punished. here, when you complete your certain number of seminars and can show it back to the teacher what you learned, you will become certified, even if you suck. i saw an ad from vunak in a magazine last month, he will certify you in ONE WEEKEND!!!! never in the p.i., like they say, "only in america". in the philippines a teacher is to careful if a guy who sucks will represent him, unless he is famous. this is why every time a man with many students or he is popular goes to the philippines, he can find a "master" in a barrio somewhere with a style nobody heard of it before, and this guy will certify him. but if he was from the philippines instead, the old man would not give it to him.

in the philippines other teachers challenge each other or they have there students fight each other. you KNOW they dont do that here. i have been here in california for 2 years, and everybody i have sparred with are karate, jujitsu, judo, kung fu or tae kwon do. why? because they had to fight to get there black belt, so they are not scared to fight.

now, i am not saying you cannot find good philippine martial art here in the u.s. it is just not the same way. what city are you in? i recommend the best popular ones to find are doce pares, balintawak, and pekiti tirsia. if you choose that, 9 out of 10 you wont go wrong. if you are in new york, try bakbakan also or sayoc style.

i disagree with your dad that philippine martial arts dont work, because if you are in a fighting base style, you cant go wrong. karate was fine for 1960s, but today you have to find one that keeps up with the times to get a good one.

email me, i would like to talk to you: thekuntawman@yahoo.com
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mabuhay
 
Originally posted by Federico:
Id like to clear up this notion that my dad does not like the Philippines or being Filipino. He has been very active in the Filipino community both here in the states and in PI. As for helping his family there, he is the one that sponsored all my family in the states. As for my cousins that are still there he has sent half of them to school, bought his brothers a house in Queson City, a car, etc... He works hard for Filipino causes. If anything, I am upset that his family in the Philippines doesnt appreciate all that he has done for them. He has provided them with more oppurtunity than I have been alotted. For my schooling I am trying to take loans and work full time, but am still unsure of where the rest of the money will come from. Right now he is dying and they still ask for money, which he can no longer give as hospital bills are rather high. I would like to say that alot his dislike of the Philippines is that he is saddened by the corruption and poverty that is still endemic to the country. Normally he will not speak of this outloud so as not to cast shame onto the country but it something that he privately is saddened by. There is still much difference upon what I am labeling Filipino culture and what he labels as Filipino culture. I would like to say his dislike of Filipino culture deals only with the bad and not the good. Aka he dislikes corruption and isolation, he dislikes Filipinos that want to make a buck when it means that they hurt others, he dislikes un-religious Filipinos, etc... The thing that saddens him the most is when he sees Filipinos killing other Filipinos. He is rather upset by the Abu sayef exploits of late. He has worked hard to get where he is. He grew up in rough areas of Manila and prospered. However most of his extended family is from visayas and parts of Cebu, his uncles and cousins still live there and not in Manila. Because he doubts the merits of commercial schools of arnis does not mean he hates being pinoy. It means he takes more stock in his own experiences than that of others. If a Filipino does not believe in Anting-antings does this mean that they are not taking pride in being Filipino? If a Filipino does not believe in arnis does this mean he has no pride in being Filipino? If he feels that their should be a modernization of Filipino economies and not a regression into a country where all Filipinos do is make carvings does this mean he has no pride in being Filipino? If he feels that he does not have to wear a barong tagalog everyday does this mean he does not take pride in being Filipino? How do you quantify being a good Filipino? Does it mean you say all is merry with every aspect of the Philippines? Do you say that all Filipinos are the same? Is there a rulebook to being Filipino? I would compare his love of being Filipino to that of the love of the father and the prodigal son. The father will always love the son, but that does not mean he condones everything that the son does. My father misses the Philippines everyday, and it frightens him to think that he will die and be buried in the US and not the Philippines.


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Federico,I think the bottomline is this, just
go experience the art for yourself.Martial Arts training has nothing to do with what etnicity you are.I'm Filipino and I think all the Arts has something to offer.I have have a lot of relatives who have heard of Arnis,Kali,Escrima,but don't truly know what it's about.They think is just sticks.If you truly feel you want to learn arnis, then go find a school and learn.Find out if this art is for you.Go check out a Karate school.You may find out that you may like that more instead.Things are much different here in the
States.You have so many opportunities to learn whatever martial arts you would like to experience.If you have the opportunity to train with Guro Dan Inosanto or Guro Ron Balicki, I would do it.Guro Dan has studied many martial arts and is always researching more.I'm sure arnis won't be the last and only style that you will train in.Like I said, Go experience it for yourself!Instead of talking about it,like Nike commerical says, JUST DO IT!!!!
 
Federico,

You might want to ask why your elders are pointing you to other arts then coming back to FMA. Why go to it if they feel FMA lacks any value? Yes it's nice to have a solid foundation in one style/art before training in other so you have something as a base to compare to, but what FMA does is different from what karate-type schools do.
As for "traditional" training in FMA, that is going to bit a bit hard. Remember, the old way is takin' a beating in the master's backyard. Any of the schools involved with Guro Inosanto will provide you with the training you are looking for. Don't mind the JKD training if it is part of the curriculum. I do both and I find that it helps me to understand FMA a little bit better in some regards. Otherwise, ask the instructor to train you only in FMA or gear your training toward it.
Again, visit any FMA school. See if they offer an intro program so you can try out a couple classes. It shouldn't cost you more than $20 to do 2 or 3 classes. Also, a good school will be able to impart the history and culture of their particular style to you rather than just giving you techniques.
Hope this helps
smile.gif
. I can e-mail you if you need more.

The Kid
 
Thanks a bundle. Youve been very informative. I am planning to visit a school soon, but with things the way they are at this moment (school starting, my dad, and work) Im not sure if Ill have time in the near future. Ive been trying to research it before I commit to anything, which is why Im here. I thought it would be interesting to hear a Filipino perspective on the matter. As for my Dads opinion maybe he doesnt want me to be beaten badly and thinks I need to toughen up a bit. I wonder if this has anything to do with the way his grandfather tried to teach him? Well I guess another part might deal with skepticism about US schools, and wether or not they will provide decent training. My dad has always tried to teach me to be more militant than I am. I gues I do not have the machismo that he has so its hard for me to look at martial arts in the sense of actual combat usage but rather as a hobby. Then again he has always advocated a .45 for home defense, and martial arts as a hobby. Oh well Im ramblin. Im actually located in Minnesota so there has been a strange community in the Minneapolis area. It is very different than those in California and Hawaii. Also I have been interested in getting a cultural perspective on the matter. A little history, and ethnic perspective. So far it seems very varying depending on who you talk to. Anyone subscribe to "Filipinas"? I read some articles in the recent issue dealing with the muslim population in PI. Anyone a muslim out there? Whats your take on northerners taking up arnis? On a completely different note anyone hear of a town named Malibago? I thinks its located either in visayas or Cebu. Just curious. Anyways thanks a bundle for the info, alot of my questions is just plain curiousity about Filipino perspectives, but hopefully Ill experience it for myself soon.

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mabuhay

[This message has been edited by Federico (edited 09-06-2000).]
 
I have to disagree with kuntaman, i know someone who went to the Philippines and trained with a GM for a little while, mostly just screw around but he paid him and got a first degree BB, then a yaer later sent him money in the mail and got a high degree certificate in the mail. All for money. Now he says the GM would give him a master certificate if he wanted. This is wrong.
 
i agree with you kalikid about this kind of behavior, there are so many teacher there that are like that, but they always do it with foriengers (i have never seen a pilipino _there_ with a certificate that way) because they need the money or fame or whatever. but that guy you know would not have a school long in the p.i. unless he was good at something.

my point is that no one cares if your skill is good or not, only do you have a reputation or do you have "techniques" to show.
for example, all the people who say what a great fighter edgar sulite or remy presas or danny inosanto are, have any of them _seen_ one of them fight before? maybe edgar sulite to his students, but i bet the answer is, no. how about paul vunak, blauer, or burt richardson, payton quinn...why are these people known as great street fighters? because here in the u.s. all you need is reputation or good advertising, and you are safe no one will challenge you. anybody here that who have train in the philippines will know that. now all those people i mention, name for me one who will make these video or seminar students fight for there certificate!

maybe in the philippines we have a few people who train and certify there people that way, but here in the u.s. it is what majorities of them do.
 
Kuntawman,

I think you mean that you agree with Kaliman not Kali-Kid.

Anyways, I know of one person who also went back to the Philippines and got his Blackbelt under an organization there just because he moved really well. He was just an intermediate student and a Filipino to boot. A second guy, who was also an intermediate student also, got his instructorship because he married the sister of one famous FMA practitioner but that happened here in the US. What the h*ll!!!
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The Kid
 
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