Ontario catalog RAT 1 info - 55/56HRC - question?

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stefan_wolf_ss

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Jul 29, 2009
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Why the hardness is so low in oficial Ontario catalog?
That is the hardness of Mora 12c27 Sandvik blades - to soft for serios use - nothing like my Spyderco 8cr13 knives - 59 to 60.5HRC
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This is a working knife, much like the Buck 110. It holds and edge well and will stand up to most tasks very well, but it isn't meant to be a really hard steel knife. I liked carrying my Shallot in 110v that is at 60 on the Rockwell scale if memory serves me. It stayed sharp a long time, but was a pain to sharpen. I have other higher performance steels than the AUS8 on this knife, but I don't like futzing with daily sharpening. I have damaged some of my harder blades when using them on site when I nick a packing staple I couldn't see, hit an embedded nail, etc. The harder steel chips too easy. The AUS8 at this softer hardness just deforms the edge a bit one way or another. Hitting something really hard when cutting, dropping the knife on concrete, very light prying... all things I don't worry about when using a knife this soft. It is easy to fix any damage an the blade won't break.

With that in mind, the RAT is a good working knife because the blade is soft enough that the blade and the edge aren't brittle, it only takes a couple of licks on the rod to get the edge back to a good working edge (noooo...... not shaving, not tree topping, and no molecular splitting of atoms) for my job site needs.

It's a great knife for its purpose the way it is. A step above a beater, and a really strong lockup. I have been using mine for almost two years and have beat the hell out of it and it just keeps on going with no problems. It literally locks up as well as the day I got it.

Robert
 
The RAT 1 is a fine knife that is well made and easy to sharpen. Often a few licks on a strop at the end of the day is all that is needed. I would have no hesitation of heading into the woods with a RAT1.
 
I think his question is why RAt runs it thatsoft while the steel should be able to go higher. 8Cr13MoV is more or less the same as AUS8 and spyderco runs it higher.

Even the Sanrenmus are on 56-58 and Enlans 57-59, both using the 8Cr13MoV.

The next question would be how is the actual knife performing, and comparing it with other AUS8 such as Coldsteel's?
 
Chris "Anagarika";10603444 said:
I think his question is why RAt runs it thatsoft while the steel should be able to go higher. 8Cr13MoV is more or less the same as AUS8 and spyderco runs it higher.
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True, but as a purpose built knife, I think they were intending this knife for a specific audience. Someone that will use the knife beyond cutting and slicing, someone that will use the knife for dirty jobs. I knicked a couple of really hard blades when using them to cut wet rope that had bits of gravel/dirt embedded in them.

I didn't see the dirt, it was rainy, and we had to get the truck unloaded. End result, chipping on my 154cm blade. Pissed me off and it tool forever to get the chips smoothed away.

On the softer blade (remember... purpose built for hard work) I have cut hard fiberglass strapping that had a lot of grit in it to off load material trailers many, many time. Catch a little grit on the strapping, open a box and nick a staple, cut something much to hard for your knife and the RAT 1 just gets dull. I have used this knife to trim siding by tapping the back of the blade with a hammer, and cut fibierglass shingles with it (remember the embedded grit). It gets pretty dull with some hard use, but then when I get home, a I wash it out with charcoal lighter fluid, oil it, and make a few passes on my 12" diamond chef's rod. A breeze to sharpen, and the finished edge (only goes to 600gr) works great. Such low maintenance requirements. That's why it sees so much work time with me.

Robert
 
It works just fine. Easy to sharpen and reasonable edge retention. Mora's 12C27 gets used plenty hard by a lot of folks, including myself. Your complaint is with their thin factory edge angle--not the steel or heat treatment. ;)

The RAT-1 has a conventional bevel and edge angle. It holds up great in real-world use. I love mine, and I know I'm not alone! :D
 
Robert,

Well put point, can't argue with that.

Anyone with the Spydie at 60 HRC withsame experience? We will learn more by comparing notes this way. :)
 
I have a rat 1 .. it came back to me eventually after I gave it away .. long story
its OK for the price

I use it as my light use knife , to cut steak , trim nails , little round the house jobs

I sat down with it and my opinel 10 when they both showed up and did some comparing . the opinel holds its edge way longer , the handle is heaps more comfortable under long use , and harder use ( it IS folders not choppers we dealing with )

the RAT1 chewed up my hand , the edge rolled slightly , no biggie , steeled it back rolled again , steeled it back , it is stainless , just whittling and slicing its going to move I spose .

the opinel with is round handle is easy on the hand for prolonged use , and even silly hard use its not going to give hotspots like the handle of the rat 1

BUT

the rat is heaps easier to carry , no accidental opening in the pocket , a niftyl reversable clip , it opens with a no bullsheet snap when you flick it out ... and it looks good .

I carry both every day ... the rat for domestic use , the opinel for stuff like making fuzz sticks , poking holes in tyres and stuff ..

I AM a snob with knives about how theyhold their edge , I live in australia , there is a reason axes come rated sutiable for australian hardwoods .. I spend a fair amount of time traveling , and that usualy means we are int he dryer areas , where everything is full of sand dried up and gnarly .. well right now , its mostly flooded but usualy .

I dont lke to have to be fixing an edge to get back that razor sharp bite . a Rat , yeah I have to , probably my use is to blame , but the opinel , being convex grind and hi carbon steel just does it better for me when I got to do a lot of stuff .

I wolndt hesitate to go bush with just my RAT , but Id prefer to take the opinel along , or just the opinel .. if people are not goin to be around like my wife who gets all grossed out by unshiny blades and food ...
 
As far as the "opening in your pocket" thing with Opinels, I'm not sure how old your example is, but they lock closed these days. There's a little notch on the bottom of the collar that allows you to shift it left to lock it shut. :)
 
My current opinel is kinda new , and yeah its got the lock ring that locks it shut , but I am just so used to many years carry the old flat grind one with a lock that only worked when it was opened out , I forget .
The new version with the convex grind tho , its kinda awesome , totally different beast to the old one .
 
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