Ontario Rat 1 Baton Test

J

JDX

Joined
Mar 2, 2014
Messages
923
Wasn't much of a test, but at work, a coworker was trying to make kindling using a very very dull hatchet. So I insisted he let me use my knife and I could baton the split logs and get some kindling.

I got kindling no problem, but afterwards, I realized my knife had some serious blade play. Then I turned it over and realized the liner lock had bent and became stuck to the right (where it shouldn't be. ) so I couldn't close it.

When I got home, I took apart the knife, brought down the handle with the liner attached and put It in a vice, and used some needle nose pliers to put it back. Then It needed a new edge.

In conclusion, this knife is tough as nails, but it shouldn't be used for batoning because the liner lock just isn't strong enough. So if any of you were on the fence about using the rat 1 as an outdoor folder, I suggest you use a fixed blade.
 
Thanks for posting this. I agree with your conclusion. Batoning should be left to fixed blades. If you have time, make some wedges to make the job easier on your knife.
 
Even cold steels triad lock has on occasion after batoning resulted in blade play (sure never closes though). I'd never attempt to baton with a folder. No lock will be strong enough.
 
Should have left the lock disengaged, it prevents the forces from being exerted on the stop pin and lockbar. Either way I would never recommend batoning with a folder, unless it's something less than 2" in diameter (there's always exceptions depending on the knife), just use common sense and a little understanding of physics.
 
If you must baton, use a fixed blade. If you must baton with a folder, disengage the lock. This should be knife nut common sense.
 
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JDX said:
In conclusion, this knife is tough as nails, but it shouldn't be used for batoning because the liner lock just isn't strong enough. So if any of you were on the fence about using the rat 1 as an outdoor folder, I suggest you use a fixed blade.
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No ****, Sherlock.

Its a frikkin 40 € pocket knife, not a splitting maul
 
I used to drive my car into concrete bridge abutments at high speed, but then figured out that they cars aren't intended to do that. Life has a way of teaching us valuable lessons.
 
Start the video at 6:51 if it doesn't go there itself. You can baton with opinels and SAKs as well as your Rat 1. Think before you act.

[video=youtube_share;Nn4zLpd_Cks]http://youtu.be/Nn4zLpd_Cks?t=6m51s[/video]
 
Didn't appreciate the smartass comments. I'm sorry I'm not a knife aficionado. I joined this site in order to gain knowledge from intelligent mature people. I didn't expect to get talked down to. So for next time, just be aware that not everyone knows as much as you do. So don't be an asshole. As for the people who posted good honest answers, thank you I appreciate It.
 
JDX said:
Didn't appreciate the smartass comments. I'm sorry I'm not a knife aficionado. I joined this site in order to gain knowledge from intelligent mature people. I didn't expect to get talked down to. So for next time, just be aware that not everyone knows as much as you do. So don't be an asshole. As for the people who posted good honest answers, thank you I appreciate It.
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Sorry about your experience, I have had much worse experience than yours on this site. BF or any forums for that matter have a hive mentality, if anyone goes against their group opinion, they will get swarmed by the hive bees defending their line of thinking. There are some good people on this site, however, the majority of human population are ignorant and members of any forum also fall on that bell curve.

I use this site mainly for trading
 
Neomentat said:
Sorry about your experience, I have had much worse experience than yours on this site. BF or any forums for that matter have a hive mentality, if anyone goes against their group opinion, they will get swarmed by the hive bees defending their line of thinking. There are some good people on this site, however, the majority of human population are ignorant and members of any forum also fall on that bell curve.

I use this site mainly for trading
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Yea I realize that now. I assume the rude members are high schoolers. I can't imagine someone out of high school being immature.
 
JDX said:
Didn't appreciate the smartass comments. I'm sorry I'm not a knife aficionado. I joined this site in order to gain knowledge from intelligent mature people. I didn't expect to get talked down to. So for next time, just be aware that not everyone knows as much as you do. So don't be an asshole. As for the people who posted good honest answers, thank you I appreciate It.
Click to expand...

Hey I appreciate people taking initiative to abuse knives in ways they probably shouldn't be, it's always interesting to find out how they'll hold up. Unfortunately though I don't think we'll ever have a folder stand up to batoning unless some company finds a way to make the stop pin and lock out of steel that's extremely hard to deform under large amounts of stress. Considering most locks are made out of softer (420 type) steel, they're basically begging to deform. But even harder steels would do it because there's just no way to keep steel on steel forces from causing a deformation. I wonder how spring tempered 1055 would hold up? Course nobody wants a lock prone to rusting.
 
Bummer that you damaged your knife but it is a valuable lesson learned....keep your hatchet sharp!

It took guts to post this so kudos to you. We have all done things that we would like to take back but this time we can all learn from your mistake.
Thank you.
 
im not condoning batoning logs with folders here but i recently got my Rat1 and have been "batoning" through smaller and thinner pieces of wood for kindling. Generally i use downed branches no bigger than an inch and a half this way i can break them easily to length and then use a broken section as a baton. ive done it with and without the lock engaged and i have had no problems. It must be said however that when doing so i only hit the blade hard enough to get it moving, think of light taps, and while batoning with the lock engaged i only held the knife tight enough to control the wood. When batoning with the lock disengaged i found it harder to keep the wood in position as i had a tendency to apply downward pressure on the knife to steady it which in turn would open the blade into the lock lol. Not trying to fuel either fire here just wanting to show with a little thought and care it can be done
 
I own one of the first model 1's for about 6 years. I too have batonned with it. At the time I knew batonning with a folder wasn't common practice but I wanted to see for myself how far I could go.

After some extensive batonning the screw that locks the blade broke. I took the knife apart and replaced the broken screw with one from the back. The knife can still be used, but it doesn't flip as it did before batonning. The liner lock also locks on the far side and got sticky making it hard to disengage.

After that I haven't used a folder to baton, but I'm glad I had the experience. Still like the model 1 very much because it's robust and gets sharp as h*ll. She's still a looker to.
 
JDX said:
Didn't appreciate the smartass comments. I'm sorry I'm not a knife aficionado. I joined this site in order to gain knowledge from intelligent mature people. I didn't expect to get talked down to. So for next time, just be aware that not everyone knows as much as you do. So don't be an asshole. As for the people who posted good honest answers, thank you I appreciate It.
Click to expand...

As I was told by some older and wiser than me when I first started posting here about eight years ago, illegitimi non carborundum. It's a public place populated by...people. As with any other public place, there are all kinds here, and common courtesy and common decency are about as uncommon as common sense these days. A thin skin will not serve you well here. Good on you for experimenting and seeing for yourself. I have been studying the subject of survival for more than four decades, and teaching it for more than two. If you aren't breaking anything, you really aren't learning much. No, obviously, a folder is not going to be the ideal tool for batonning...but by and large batonning is an act of survival, and acts of survival are performed with whatever tools available. Being as folders and multi-tools are carried more commonly than fixed blades for edc use, it's not a bad idea to see just what your chosen tools will take. One of the classes I teach is wet conditions fire starting to some local scouts, and I have taught more than one group how to baton and truncate with their folding knives. It can be done to great affect, though you should use some precautions...especially if you are actually in a survival situation, to preserve your tools. Rule one being to not baton or truncate anything larger in diameter or denser than is necessary. Secondly, as mentioned earlier, don't engage the lock on a liner lock. I tend to use a pinch grip on the pivot pin and apply downward force on the back of the blade with my forefinger while tapping on the blade, not wailing on it. Prolonged used of a folder in this manner is still going to be hard on it, and do damage over time even with care, and so I edc a small fixed blade as well, but not all folders are created equally. I got to do the test and eval on the DPX HEST folder when it came out in 2009, an though I have tried a few others since, I still carry one today, but even when I baton with it, I tend to pinch-grip it on the thumb studs to keep from transferring the force to the lock bar.

In any case, at least you are out actually experimenting and learning, so you have more working in your favor than most :)

By the way, welcome to the asylum :D
 
JDX said:
Didn't appreciate the smartass comments. I'm sorry I'm not a knife aficionado. I joined this site in order to gain knowledge from intelligent mature people. I didn't expect to get talked down to. So for next time, just be aware that not everyone knows as much as you do. So don't be an asshole. As for the people who posted good honest answers, thank you I appreciate It.
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if you haven't gotten it yet from a mod.. you aren't supposed to swear on here. you might not like the comments some people post, but if you're commenting on their maturity, don't be immature in your resoponses. I've seen these posts turn into arguements that have snowballed into something that has caused a person to be banned and the person being banned was in the right at the onset... but let his emotions get the better of him. Fact is, if you're going to do foolish things, you're going to get a bit of a ribbing for it. just learn from your mistakes and in a little while you'll be poking fun at the next guy to ruin something by doing something they shouldn't have. This forum can be brutally honest but it can be a great place to learn. it's all about what you want out of it. If you don't want to be tortured a bit, I'd recommend looking a few things up on the internet before going out and trying them on your own. could save you some money and a few comments and laughs at your expense.

welcome to the forums
 
mistwalker said:
As I was told by some older and wiser than me when I first started posting here about eight years ago, illegitimi non carborundum. It's a public place populated by...people. As with any other public place, there are all kinds here, and common courtesy and common decency are about as uncommon as common sense these days. A thin skin will not serve you well here. Good on you for experimenting and seeing for yourself. I have been studying the subject of survival for more than four decades, and teaching it for more than two. If you aren't breaking anything, you really aren't learning much. No, obviously, a folder is not going to be the ideal tool for batonning...but by and large batonning is an act of survival, and acts of survival are performed with whatever tools available. Being as folders and multi-tools are carried more commonly than fixed blades for edc use, it's not a bad idea to see just what your chosen tools will take. One of the classes I teach is wet conditions fire starting to some local scouts, and I have taught more than one group how to baton and truncate with their folding knives. It can be done to great affect, though you should use some precautions...especially if you are actually in a survival situation, to preserve your tools. Rule one being to not baton or truncate anything larger in diameter or denser than is necessary. Secondly, as mentioned earlier, don't engage the lock on a liner lock. I tend to use a pinch grip on the pivot pin and apply downward force on the back of the blade with my forefinger while tapping on the blade, not wailing on it. Prolonged used of a folder in this manner is still going to be hard on it, and do damage over time even with care, and so I edc a small fixed blade as well, but not all folders are created equally. I got to do the test and eval on the DPX HEST folder when it came out in 2009, an though I have tried a few others since, I still carry one today, but even when I baton with it, I tend to pinch-grip it on the thumb studs to keep from transferring the force to the lock bar.

In any case, at least you are out actually experimenting and learning, so you have more working in your favor than most :)

By the way, welcome to the asylum :D
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Read this guy's post.

Ignore the rest.

Not all lessons in life are learned in a book/word format.
 
JDX said:
Yea I realize that now. I assume the rude members are high schoolers. I can't imagine someone out of high school being immature.
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Hahaha, you must be not too far out of high school yourself if you believe that! Just turned 36 and most of the people that were d-bags in high school STILL are!:eek:
 
A right handed liner lock folding knife should when it fails, should lock open and the lock fail to the right. If the lock is properly made. keepem sharp
 
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