Thinking about either of these for a general everyday knife. Both knives have gotten great reviews but I am having a hard time deciding... The fact that the howling rat is an inch smaller is a good thing in my book as I dont want to freak the general public out. I will probably have a sheath custom made for either one I get as I am not fond of either of them. Any pros / cons / opinions would be helpful.
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Ontario TAK v.s. Swamp Rat Howling Rat
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t1mpani
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The Howling Rat is more easily carried. Having the full sized micarta handle on the TAK makes it very heavy for a small knife, and the Howler is a smaller overall knife while still having equal blade/edge length. The steel of the Howler is superior also.
As a general utility knife, either is better than the D-2 TAK. The D-2 would be a good choice if all you are going to do is slice with it, but may be a tad fragile for much else.
The D-2 TAK vs. the Swamp Rat Bog Dog is a comparison I hope to see at some point. I think it'd be interesting.
As a general utility knife, either is better than the D-2 TAK. The D-2 would be a good choice if all you are going to do is slice with it, but may be a tad fragile for much else.
The D-2 TAK vs. the Swamp Rat Bog Dog is a comparison I hope to see at some point. I think it'd be interesting.
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Welcome to the forums, Oni!
Go with the Howling Rat. Better warranty, better steel, and it's Stamp-proof.
Go with the Howling Rat. Better warranty, better steel, and it's Stamp-proof.
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thombrogan said:Welcome to the forums, Oni!
Go with the Howling Rat. Better warranty, better steel, and it's Stamp-proof.
I agree. I love my Howler and it carries very nicely for EDC. The blade shape seems to be very sheeple friendly as it looks like just what it is, a great skinner/utility/slicing knife. I've had no comments from co workers on the Howler, but some about other (smaller) 'tactical' looking blade shapes.
I don't own a TAK, but the Howler is my favorite Rat. The Bog Dog is also an excellent choice, but I just got mine (had the HR 2 years) and haven't used it enough yet to see if it's going to knock the HR out of the top spot. Both are presently doing side by side work in the kitchen (both excell here). Nice to have knives that can do double or triple duty.
Yeah, the factory sheaths sorta suck. MtMike made the sheath for my Howler and it is an extremely heavy duty field use sheath. Leather of course. He has now altered the design a bit so it can be worn on either side if you wish. Leatherman also makes sheaths for the Rats that are top notch. Lots of good kydex benders out there also if you prefer plastic.
Good luck in your search.
Rob
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You can hardly go wrong with SRKW if you want a solid hard-use knife. They got excellent ergonomics and the steel they use will hold an edge for quite a while.
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So far it seems only one person has experience with both and prefers the TAK.
I only own the TAK and like it (in fact it's in my ruck for most of my outings in the mountains) but I'd expect that the opinion of marsupial is the only one that really counts for judging the knives head to head and would therefore give it much more weighting.
(I also know that Jeff Randall and Ontario stand behind the knives and will fix or replace it promptly if a problem arises.)
I only own the TAK and like it (in fact it's in my ruck for most of my outings in the mountains) but I'd expect that the opinion of marsupial is the only one that really counts for judging the knives head to head and would therefore give it much more weighting.
(I also know that Jeff Randall and Ontario stand behind the knives and will fix or replace it promptly if a problem arises.)
Thank you very much for the replies, in all actuality I think I will get both but I will probably go with the howling rat first. The reasoning behind this is the steel and reputation, period. I have the Tops Tracker but kinda big / scarry for the general public for an everyday carry... 
I will now be looking for a good kydex / leather sheath for "discreet" EDC. Any ideas??
but I will probably go with the howling rat first. The reasoning behind this is the steel and reputation, period. I have the Tops Tracker but kinda big / scarry for the general public for an everyday carry... I will now be looking for a good kydex / leather sheath for "discreet" EDC. Any ideas??Cliff Stamp
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The Cordura sheaths for the Swamp Rat blades are kind of plain looking, they are certainly not at the same level of the Blackhawk products in terms of versatility (rigging, low -> high ride etc.), however in terms of durability they are high.
I have a Howling Rat and Camp Tramp and both have seen extensive use for well over a year, and when I wasn't using them they were loaned out. The Howling Rat sheath doesn't look any different, there is some fraying on the belt loop of the Camp Tramp sheath, which was simply stitched down (about a cm or so had come free).
The new D2 line looks excellent, I have one coming, its a very different steel though, and a different intended use of knife.
While I have not used the Ontario TAK, I have used Ontario's line extensively, and even the Livesay versions of the RTAK, there is no comparison to the Swamp Rat blades which are in a much higher class.
-Cliff
I have a Howling Rat and Camp Tramp and both have seen extensive use for well over a year, and when I wasn't using them they were loaned out. The Howling Rat sheath doesn't look any different, there is some fraying on the belt loop of the Camp Tramp sheath, which was simply stitched down (about a cm or so had come free).
The new D2 line looks excellent, I have one coming, its a very different steel though, and a different intended use of knife.
While I have not used the Ontario TAK, I have used Ontario's line extensively, and even the Livesay versions of the RTAK, there is no comparison to the Swamp Rat blades which are in a much higher class.
-Cliff
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Cliff Stamp said:
It'd probably have been better (imho) for you to leave your remark as "I have not used the Ontario TAK" than to try to paint all of the knives with such a broad brush which implies something about the TAK that in fact you haven't determined. You'd also sound less like a repetitive ad for Busse products since it seems that all of your analyses end up in their promotion which may appear to undermine your objectivity. (Before anybody gets too apoplectic I'll just state for the record that I still own three Busse (Basic) knives and have owned others in the past as well.)
averageguy
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I've always maintained that one of the foundation knives for a collection is the CS Master Hunter.
Why? It's a solid and well designed knife in every way with a long reputation for being a good tool.
Comfortable and secure handle - stout spine and tip - well ground to an excellent working edge. Choice of high carbon or stainless - attractive and durable satin finish.
Inexpensive initial cost - easy to resell (at a small loss) or trade.
There are countless other knives in this size range. May well be the most common and widely available size in a fixed blade -custom and production. However, not one, is a significantly better knife.
Owning and experiencing one of these will help you understand better what makes a good knife - what features you want to look for in the future - what changes you would make - what kind of knife would better suit your needs.
Here are my thoughts on the Howling Rat. I have not owned one of these. I did own one of the Busse Basic knives which this model closely resembles. The problem I had with the Basic was the edge. Possibly the thickest edge I have ever seen on a knife. A thick edge detracts from cutting efficiency. The pictures I've seen of the Howling Rat suggest it too has a very thick edge. Additionally I prefer a satin finish over a coated blade - especialy when I can have a satin finish for way less money. The Bog Dog appears to overcome these shortcomings and, unless you really need a prybar, would seem to be the better choice if you're determined to buy a Swamp Rat product. I do prefer the 3/16" spine of the CS over the 1/8" Bog Dog but I'm sure the Bog Dog is an excellent cutter.
I do currently own a TAK. Similar features to the CS; blade steel - grind - shape. Nicer handle. The CS is a little smaller overall and probably a little bit stouter. I have two problems with the TAK. One is the crude looking blade coating. Again, I prefer satin especially if I can get it for the same or less money. Second, it came very slightly warped. Still, I like this knife and would buy another one.
Why? It's a solid and well designed knife in every way with a long reputation for being a good tool.
Comfortable and secure handle - stout spine and tip - well ground to an excellent working edge. Choice of high carbon or stainless - attractive and durable satin finish.
Inexpensive initial cost - easy to resell (at a small loss) or trade.
There are countless other knives in this size range. May well be the most common and widely available size in a fixed blade -custom and production. However, not one, is a significantly better knife.
Owning and experiencing one of these will help you understand better what makes a good knife - what features you want to look for in the future - what changes you would make - what kind of knife would better suit your needs.
Here are my thoughts on the Howling Rat. I have not owned one of these. I did own one of the Busse Basic knives which this model closely resembles. The problem I had with the Basic was the edge. Possibly the thickest edge I have ever seen on a knife. A thick edge detracts from cutting efficiency. The pictures I've seen of the Howling Rat suggest it too has a very thick edge. Additionally I prefer a satin finish over a coated blade - especialy when I can have a satin finish for way less money. The Bog Dog appears to overcome these shortcomings and, unless you really need a prybar, would seem to be the better choice if you're determined to buy a Swamp Rat product. I do prefer the 3/16" spine of the CS over the 1/8" Bog Dog but I'm sure the Bog Dog is an excellent cutter.
I do currently own a TAK. Similar features to the CS; blade steel - grind - shape. Nicer handle. The CS is a little smaller overall and probably a little bit stouter. I have two problems with the TAK. One is the crude looking blade coating. Again, I prefer satin especially if I can get it for the same or less money. Second, it came very slightly warped. Still, I like this knife and would buy another one.
t1mpani
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Cliff,
Actually the current Howling Rat sheaths are leather pouches. Just FYI
Averageguy,
Keep in mind that the black coated "second" versions of CS Master Hunters bear a fare resemblance to the Basics, too, and that it doesn't mean anything. Howler's made of thinner stock than the Basics, and has a thinner edge. I used to own the Basic 4 (buddy in Germany hooked me up) and the Howling Rat is a very different knife. I do still have a couple Master Hunters laying around and will agree that they are very good cutters.
Warren
Edited to fix some stupid spelling mistakes--danger of typing with 1.5 hands and trying to keep cheese off the keyboard.
Actually the current Howling Rat sheaths are leather pouches. Just FYI
Averageguy,
Keep in mind that the black coated "second" versions of CS Master Hunters bear a fare resemblance to the Basics, too, and that it doesn't mean anything. Howler's made of thinner stock than the Basics, and has a thinner edge. I used to own the Basic 4 (buddy in Germany hooked me up) and the Howling Rat is a very different knife. I do still have a couple Master Hunters laying around and will agree that they are very good cutters.
Warren
Edited to fix some stupid spelling mistakes--danger of typing with 1.5 hands and trying to keep cheese off the keyboard.
Cliff Stamp
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Is that for all the models? Or are some still with the Nylon?
-Cliff
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I love my Swamp Rat! You will too!
I just wanted to give an update on this thread. I just recieved my Tak D2 yesterday and can say after having my HR for about 3 months I like my HR better 
To be fair I cant really compair these knives because they are SO diffrent. The Tak is D2 which is harder and thus has a much more brittle feel to it. The edge geometry on the TAK is also much thinner adding to this (15deg on the serations and 20deg on the plain-edge) where as the HR has a convex edge (very durable).
I was slightly disapointed when I chopped into a wood post (2-3 diameter ones that are used as tree stakes) and found that a few (read - more than one) of the seration teeth chipped!
This is my first D2 blade so mabey I was expecting something that I should'nt have.. I should have put 2 and 2 together (17deg geometry with long points and brittle steel) The HR on the otherhand is SR101 and is much more forgiving to say the last and a convex edge is very liberating once you get the hang of it. The HR also has the "Respine C" Grip and is much smaller in hand than the TAK (I have fallen in love with respC btw..) and is much more easly EDC. The sheath on the HR like posted above was leather and very high quality but the cordura sheath on the TAK has already broken (snap that lets you attach to belt busted off). Both are quality blades IMO but I think I would take a Rat over a TAK any day of the week for EDC. So, long story short:
TAK -
good blade (resistant to rust and exelent edge holding)
good edge geometry (very efficiant slicer)
good handeI (uncramped, secure grip)
Rat -
good blade (very tough blade and edge)
good handle (most comfortable grip I have ever felt, exept for the CT which is also respC
)
Bomb proof everything
I have a BD comming in the near future and am VERY interested to compair the Ontario D2 with the Rats D2, once I do I will post again with results.. Man, did'nt mean for this to get so long...
To be fair I cant really compair these knives because they are SO diffrent. The Tak is D2 which is harder and thus has a much more brittle feel to it. The edge geometry on the TAK is also much thinner adding to this (15deg on the serations and 20deg on the plain-edge) where as the HR has a convex edge (very durable). I was slightly disapointed when I chopped into a wood post (2-3 diameter ones that are used as tree stakes) and found that a few (read - more than one) of the seration teeth chipped!
This is my first D2 blade so mabey I was expecting something that I should'nt have.. I should have put 2 and 2 together (17deg geometry with long points and brittle steel) The HR on the otherhand is SR101 and is much more forgiving to say the last and a convex edge is very liberating once you get the hang of it. The HR also has the "Respine C" Grip and is much smaller in hand than the TAK (I have fallen in love with respC btw..) and is much more easly EDC. The sheath on the HR like posted above was leather and very high quality but the cordura sheath on the TAK has already broken (snap that lets you attach to belt busted off). Both are quality blades IMO but I think I would take a Rat over a TAK any day of the week for EDC. So, long story short:TAK -
good blade (resistant to rust and exelent edge holding)
good edge geometry (very efficiant slicer)
good handeI (uncramped, secure grip)
Rat -
good blade (very tough blade and edge)
good handle (most comfortable grip I have ever felt, exept for the CT which is also respC
)Bomb proof everything
I have a BD comming in the near future and am VERY interested to compair the Ontario D2 with the Rats D2, once I do I will post again with results.. Man, did'nt mean for this to get so long...
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Sounds like a good review coming up. I'd like to hear how the BD compares.
FWIW, Cliff's statements don't sound like a repetitive ad for Busse/Swamp Rat, more like telling it like it is. He DID break a Busse Basic, remember? He wrote about that too. No bitching from Busse and he got a new knife. It did take him 2 years or so to do this.
Look at Kliff Stumps reviews for a more exhaustive examination.
Rob
FWIW, Cliff's statements don't sound like a repetitive ad for Busse/Swamp Rat, more like telling it like it is. He DID break a Busse Basic, remember? He wrote about that too. No bitching from Busse and he got a new knife. It did take him 2 years or so to do this.
Look at Kliff Stumps reviews for a more exhaustive examination.
Rob