Ooops, I did it again (airline/knife incident)

fracmeister

fracmeister

Petroleum Engineer
Joined
May 26, 1999
Messages
1,686
Walked onto a flight with my (large) Sebenza in my jacket. Put the jaclet through the x ray as it was full of keys, cameras, etc.

My wife was stopped and she had to get rid of HER TWEEZERS.

I mailed the Sebenza home as I can't count on 7.25$ an hour incompetency ALL the time.

I don't feel more secure. Not one bit. Everyone should have a knife if they know how to use one.
 
I don't know if you are breaking balls or what but if ya did get on a flight with a large Sebenza I wouldn't be broadcasting it if you know what I mean.
 
No, he's saying that he went and mailed it home, because he couldn't count on their missing the knife - right? :) Risk it and you'd have been in big trouble...:eek:

~Mitch
 
Hey, I was already OFF the plane and through Canadian customs when I noticed the knife. I would have checked it if I had any idea it was with me. I did check my regular carry that day along with a MICRA.

As for broadcasting, even our FAA brethren aren't interested in someone figuring out that there was a security breach a while back (post 9/11). They are trying to stop them. But what I am saying is that if I don't even KNOW I have a knife with me (and thus haven't tried to hide it!) and they can't find it.... well, someone who wants to sneek something on isn't going to have any trouble at all.

I think the current security effort is largely a waste of time. We are missing the real issues.
 
You know fracmeister, I mean no offense but for your own sake you gotta tighten up your act. While security is still not perfect, and never will be, you could have bought yourself a boat load of trouble, big dollar fines, jail time and attorny fees. They would probably consider that size knife the same as a gun post 9-11. In a way its as bad as the guys that board the plane with a gun that have a permit and just forgot about it. You have to remember and check all bags for stuff you forgot about or someone else put there. This should include on your person. The smart move you made was not telling them of their error. Better to mail it home before the next check. Agreed. But people knowing they carry knives and guns have got to check their person and bags before going on a plane.
On occasion I have to go into secure courthouses and buildings. I check every inch of my person. On one sweep I found a .40 cal pistol round. It was left over somehow from shooting that weekend outdoors in that jacket. What a shock. Think they would not have given me a rash of crap over that.....they would have.. Its on the banned list.but I found it first. Same for forgetting a knife in a shoulder bag etc. If they find the stuff you will be red faced and probably miss your flight at the very least, and be jailed in some cases.

As for security its not realistic unless we all travel nude. You could use wood knives or ceramic or plastic or a garrot or..just keep naming it. But what has changed is attitude of passengers and crew. Those F-16 escorts too. And attitude is everything. No more being passive.
 
... deny having it, then tell the fuzz you need it for self defense. Hey, it works for 23 year old college students lol!:D
 
There was an incident involving a 70-ish year old NH citizen who accidently enetered an airport with his EVEYDAY carry firearm. WAIT!!!! this fine gentleman has been an outstanding resident, serving as a legislator, a local political figure and an example of a GREAT AMERICAN PATRIOT. He has carried CCW for over 50 years, and his record indicates not even ONE parking ticket.
He also is a business executive, and a very well-known national figure. This became an AP/wire story and generated several WEEKS of Local media coverage.
Of COURSE it was NOT a good move to forget that you left your small caliber handgun in a pocket holster in your coat. He arrived at the airport late, grabbed said coat and entered the airport for a business trip, maybe his 2,000th flight.
The presence of the firearm began an [high level] security Breach, massive LE presence, and a VERY PUBLC arrest. A very unfortunate incident.
It is now OVER. NO TRIAL, NO CONVICTION. The public remains divided over this incident. Was this a big time error or a MAJOR scew-up worthy of SEVERE punishment.
This well known NH "pillar of the community" paid well over $5,000 in legal fees to simply convince everyone he made an error. NO DENIAL of the facts, just an error. His reasoning: "I have carried a small caliber firearm everyday of my life for 50 years. It has become a part of me. In my haste to catch my flight, I grabbed my outter coat, never giving any thought to the presence of this gun. This is the first time I have ever inadvertently carried this weapon into a prohibbited area. This is an OMISSION not a COMMISSION."
Everyone in New Hampshire knows this man's outstanding service to the State and it's citizenry. However, this ONE indiscretion has caused so much pain for this Man and his family that he has "disappeared" from the Public's eye forever.
I know what the public's opinion IS in NH, what do you all think?
 
I can understand the omission etc. I can see how a small calib. handgun can be missed along with a knife. My first point is I wouldn't broadcast it as you are just setting yourself up for trouble. You don't know who is reading threads. Second point is after 9-11, I wouldn't cut anyone any slack.(period!) It is that simple. To me it is a cut and dried issue. What you are and not allowed to do when going through airline security checkpoints. I hate flying as it is. Never have liked to fly and like it even less now and if I fly every couple of years that is alot. Drives my wife nuts as she takes the kids on alot of vacations without me. Such is life. I too have been carrying a firearm for the last 26 years on a CCW in NYS. I know without a doubt where it can and can not be carried. I carry it(pistol) where I am allowed and not where I am not allowed. I do not carry any weapons at all when entering Fed., State, County office buildings, nor into banks, schools, or airports, etc etc. Do I feel less secure when I don't carry in these places, not really. I am trusting the people that work security in those places to take care of business if the need should ever arise. All this being said I don't care who you are or what you do after 9-11, there should be no exceptions. Every single person living the USA should be aware of the rules and suffer the consequences for there actions. Let the mitigating circumstances come out after the fact. Keep'em sharp
 
longbow,

What you are proposing is the same "zero tolerance" idea that has worked so poorly in our nation's schools. Intent IS important when an infraction has occurred; it is the basis of our legal system. If it were not so, there would not be such differences as: murder one, murder two, manslaughter, etc.

I've always wondered about how the zero tolerance advocates would feel if it was one of them that was caught in a simple mistake.

I don't want you to think I advocate carelessness. I fly frequently, 15 to 20 trips per year, including outside the United States. I check all my clothes and carry-ons for knives, but I'm human. I make mistakes. To think that I could incur jail time because I forgot a pocket knife (not a weapon) scares me.

Dean
 
Frac starts the post with "oops", which I'm pretty sure means he's posting an anecdote about an oversight rather than documenting an evil attempts to smuggle a large Sebenza aboard an airplane.

Sheesh.

Brandon
 
Interesting Thread....

francmeister. Glad to hear all went well, did you enjoy your trip?

As to the new rules and regs and what we should do in regards to them....

So, if someone wipes New York off the map, having smuggled the detonators in condoms secreted in their anal orifices, are you going to happily bend over for Mister Security Officer No Tolerance to give your excretory function the once, twice, three times just for safety?

And then we can post questions like....

"Which Lubricant do your prefer for cavity checks?"

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=183790


Notice To Those Who Have Never Thought This Through:

Their will never be created a system of security that will absolutely guarantee your Safety.

Instead, why don't we do something meaningful, like training medics to carry Band-Aids for sucking chest wounds.
 
I am not insinuating the facmeister knowingly smuggled a Sebenza on the flight. What I am saying is ignorance of the law no matter what the facts are, is no excuse. I also said after all is said and done let the mitigating circumstances dictate any fine or punishment or lack there of. In this case his not knowing the knife was on his person. Hey I don't know the fella at all but I would lay dollars to doughnuts he is as law biding as any one of us. Again ingorance is not bliss in the eyes of the law, especially after 9-11. I am also a strong proponent of the zero tolerance law that our schools are governed by. Do I think it works all the time. NO. Do I think it could be better well sure with a stronger central family which in the late 20th and these early yrs of the 21st century seems to be lost. Do I think anyone is going to look up my arse I don't think so!!! All I am saying is that with the what on 9-11 and what is currently going on I would have never posted a thread such as this, I would never have any kind of knife, or anything that could be miscontrued for a knife or firearm or anything like that on me. And so the debate will rage on and I know we can all think up far fetched scenarios and what not. But we all have to abide by what is the law after 9-11 like it or not. Keep'em sharp

PS by the title of the thread I am assuming that facmeister has done this at least one other time... oops I did it again...
 
Please be careful. They will crucify you, just to make themselves look better and they are damned serious about it. Serious about prosecuting innocents, that is. Don't be the one.
 
Did you get a little weak in the knees when you had discovered what you had done? I think I would have had nightmares about what could have been. Glad it turned out OK.

I think that it would be a good thing if some of those FAA head-bozo's saw this thread for two reasons;

1. Their implemented "beefed-up security measures" suck and are mearly a band-aid solution made to pacify a sheeple mentality that unfortunately predominates this country.

2. Not everyone who carries a knife is a criminal and if more people to a pro-active approach to self-defense that maybe the crime rate would go DOWN.




edited for crappy spelling :rolleyes:
 
No, I do know the laws and certainly had no intention of flouting* them. I didn't even know I had a knife in my coat pocket until well after I had landed. I had checked my EDC (in this case a SpeedTech Elishewitz). Had I been "caught" with the knife at security, I would have tried to carry it back and leave it in the car.

I guess my point is that law abiding citizens can be technically guilty of what is now a "major crime" under innocent circumstances. Remember, the "couldn't keep my WalMart job so I went to work here" security personnel gave my wife grief over the contents of her manicure set. It is assinine to strain at the gnat and swallow the camel. That is what we are doing.

Will I be more cautious? Oh yes. Will this experience help some of you (routine knife carriers to whom having more than one {ahem} blade in your pocket seem natural) be more cautious? I hope so. Maybe it will even save you some grief. Mine was an honest error; it wasn't caught. Am I afraid that posting it here will bring down the wrath of the Feds? No. Not any more than I am about fessing up that I went a touch faster than the posted speed on the way home from my last vacation. I wholly support our LEOs and have no intention of breaking any laws. But I do expect rational behavior on their part as well.

Should somebody show up with a Leatherman Micra on their key ring, I'd hope they'd give them a chance to go mail it home rather than making a Federal case. After all, the Highway Patrol clocked me at 75 in a 70 (no doubt) and didn't bother to pull out after me.... they were looking for (and found plenty of) the egregious offenders.

**********Warning, pet peeve follows****************

* Flout the law, not "flaunt" the law. Pet peeve. Even worse is when someone types "looser" meaning "loser."
 
frac, you behaved extremely responsibly, by keeping calm, mailing the knife out of harm's way once you realized you had it, and posting the story here to remind the rest of us to check carefully to avoid having to deal with the instant security gremlins.

On the other hand, I have zero tolerance for anyone supporting Zero Tolerance. 'Turn off my brain, grandma, I can't be bothered making decisions anymore ... just lock them all up until they're as senile as I am now ...'. There are a lot of things I think are wrong, and should be turned over to administrative officials or should be considered criminal and turned over to law enforcement and the courts to deal with. But that doesn't mean cookie-cutter justice, one-size-fits-all prison jumpsuits, and no consideration given to intent, circumstances, or actual effect on the people involved. Since when is a drawing a picture of G.I.Joe on a level of moral turpitude with bringing in a rifle and shooting classmates? The one does not lead to the other.
 
This (okay, beefed up security in general) brings to light a false sense of security because of the perceived improvement in security. The problem is not your grandmother flying with a pair of tweezers or, your father flying with a pair of nail clippers.

You have a few dedicated professionals in airport security and a large percentage of some of the dumbest people America has to offer. Last survey I read said 25% of them didn't even have a high school diploma or a GED. These are the people who are going to decide whether or not you are a threat to public safety on an airplane.

But wait, we will make them Federal employees and attract better caliber people (maybe not MENSA candidates but, at least high school graduates). Oh wait; if we do that, we won't have enough of these highly skilled and intelligent people. I know, we will waive the lowest level of educational requirements if they are already working for airport security. After all, we wouldn't want to see any of them let go but, wasn’t that the reason for Federalizing them (getting rid of the people who are currently failing us and demonstrated their incompetence on September 11th)? And for the privilege of this improved security, we will charge everyone who flies surcharges to cover the increased expense of keeping these idiots on the payroll.

People in public office are paranoid about a 6 second sound bite on national news so, as result are forcing some poorly thought out policies on law abiding citizens.

I flew for years with a Benchamde AFCK in a neck sheath, a Leatherman Supertool in my pocket and, one of various hard use field knives like my Emerson Commander clipped to my back pocket. I wasn't a threat then and, I am not now. If I tried that today, I would have a hard time avoiding jail. There are two pretty simple choices, either I don't fly or, I don't carry anything with me.

After letting people fly with loaded handguns in carry on baggage (after September 11th) and various knives and other prohibited items, don't kid yourself. If you unintentionally violate the rules, you too are looking at potential jail time and significant legal expenses. It's not really about safety; it's about following the rules and making the public feel good with a false sense of security.

For the thousands of dedicated professionals who protect out safety everyday - I have great respect and admiration for you whether you are a soldier, fireman or, police officer. For the idiots who tag along on the shirt tails of these dedicated professional with your ignorance and incompetence, I have no respect for you while you mindlessly go through motions of what you pretend to be doing to protect public safety.
 
IMHO, I believe the most important issue is INTENT. Did a person PURPOSELY or KNOWINGLY bring a now classified prohibitted item into a highly secure area, and do so with the intent to commit an act of TERRORISM.
PRIOR to 09-11-01, the presence of a knife, even a handgun [if properly permitted] did not trigger a military response with fully loaded M-4's.
NOW, however, the presence of a CHIVE is likely to land you in a small private room with several LE officials and NO chance of making your flight.
But is this what WE asked for? Don't we want the most safe and secure flying enviornment?
Well, How about the FAM [Federal Air Marshal Program] The "concept" was to hire seasoned 20 plus year Law Enforcement veterans for a ONE-YEAR contract to serve as an FAM. However, due to the GREAT WISDOM of our Government, the age limt was extended from 37 to 40. BIG DEAL. I do NOT know of any 20 plus year veteran Police officers who are not yet 40. Simple math dictates that if the MINIMUM age to be a Cop is 21, then the minimun age to be a 20 year Veteran COP is 41. The FAM program remains, a "program"
In the meantime, the current security scheme at the airport is simply "eye-candy". if someone is DETERMINED to do evil, they WILL find the way. Whether it be a sneaker molded out of C-4, or underwear made with a newer synthetic explosive, if someone WANTS to, they WILL.
To run honest, hard-working AMERICANS thru the wringer in the name of "security and Safety" is NOT working. VOLUNTARY COMPLIANCE is!!
Airlines STILL serve alcoholic beverages on flights, people are still getting slammed and stupid. Many flights end up with "fighter escorts" to the nearest airport to land and remove the unarmed trouble-maker, and the cost is staggering.[and silence is golden]
Add to that, folks like us that carry a knife everyday, everywhere, and have done so for such a long time it is like our wedding band-"don't even feel it on your finger". NOW, have us rush to catch a flight and BINGO-Your are FRONT PAGE NEWS.
Let's debate this. Make this a 100 page thread. How do we find the magical mix of security, while still allowing decent, honest folks to live their lives with minimal GOVERNMENT intrusions. This includes carrying a small knife on an aircraft from Point A to point B with NO INTENTION of EVER commiting an act of TERROR. Can it be done?.........wolf
 
I don't support the "zero tolerance" theme.

But, keep in mind. . .there are people among us called "sleepers." These are people who were planted in the US anywhere from 5 - 40+ years ago. They are fine people, outstanding residents, serving their community proudly, and show their American patriotism. Until they are called upon to their dirty deed(s). :mad:

Oh. . .and then we have our "home raised" US citizen whacko's on the loose who enjoy terrorizing us and our property.

So, where do we start ? Hopefully, we can get to a better place than where we're currently at !

Not an alarmist. . .a realist !
 
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