Open assist knives and the law.

J

JacDan

Joined
Jan 27, 2005
Messages
20
Can anyone recommend a knife for EDC that is around the same size and looks as the Kershaw Chive but without the assisted opening feature?

I live in NYC and according to their knife laws, it seems that the Chive would be illegal for EDC:

Section 265.00 4. "Switchblade knife" means any knife
which has a blade which opens automatically by hand
pressure applied to a button, spring or other device in
the handle of the knife. 5. "Gravity knife" means any
knife has blade which is released from the handle or
sheath thereof by the force of gravity of the application
of centrifugal force which, when released, is locked in
place by means of a button, spring, lever, or other
device. 5-a. "Pilum ballistic knife" means any knife which
has a blade which can be projected from the handle by hand
pressure applied to a button, lever, spring or other
device in the handle of the knife.

Of course the legal mumbo jumbo makes it difficult to say with certainty that the Chive falls into one of those categories (I guess they do that on purpose for surprise charges). Just in case, it'd be nice to know of "legal" alternatives. TIA.
 
"Switchblade knife" means any knife
which has a blade which opens automatically by hand
pressure applied to a button, spring or other device in
the handle of the knife.


It's the blade, not the handle. Should be legal. I am NOT a lawyer.
 
A friend of mine just moved to NY and told me that the laws are very similar to California (according to his lawyer, I guess). Basically, cops and the courts don't want to see you with anything you can open without manually pushing the blade all the way into a locked position. Nothing "assisted"... even minimally.

But... I always wear my EDC clipped to my front pants pocket, and have never even had a cop stop me and ask. My dad used to say: "you really have to **** up to get strip-searched."''
 
I believe it is a risk to carry an assisted opener anywhere because in my own surveys of cops in my own local area I have gotten differing responses.

One state cop said, "having that in public is a felony". Same as a switch blade in his book. Key words there....'his book'. By the way it is not a felony. If it held up it is a misdemenor. But again, not in 'his book'.

Another sherrif deputy said, "oh heck they're legal. I carry one of them 'black ones' myself. We've had people down here arrested and kept overnight where those Kershaws were given back to them in the morning when they were released".

and still another said, " I think it is up to the arresting officer. I'd probably let it go unless there were other circumstances".

If you like the Chive take out the spring it is a piece of cake to do you just need the small torx wrench. I did that with my Chive for the very same reason. I also drilled a small hole in the blade for the detent ball (which is already installed on the lock but non functional for keeping the knife blade closed better) to fall into to help keep the knife shut so it didn't accidentally open by gravity in the pocket and I grinded off the flipper.

Ken Onion told me that the reason the ball is installed in the lock is because it is a similar hardness to the blade and makes it smoother functioning. I just gave it a hole to fall into since I removed the spring that used to aid in keeping the blade closed. Note my modified (EDIT:"Sorry my bad here". I said Chive originally and this is obviously a Scallion.) Scallion minus the flipper in the pic below.

ModifiedScallion.jpg
 
STR - could you give me a little more detail about how you drilled the hole for the ball detent? What diameter, did deep did you drill? and how did you mark the spot so you knew you were drilling where it lines up when the knife is closed?
 
well, if the law in NY is the same as in CA, you sould be fine. again, i said IF.

in California assisted openers are 100% legal to own and carry.

abe m.
 
Alonzo. fortunately the line the ball made from use before I did it was quite clear. From the factory it had been oiled slightly and this left a very visible trail from the ball on the blade. I drilled the hole just ahead and touching where this line ended. I couldn't have marked it better myself if I had tried.

As for what I used to drill the hole. I used a dental carbide inverted cone to start the hole and mark it good. Then I changed that out to a dental diamond burr. A small round ball diamond burr appx the next size up in diameter to the ball on the lock. I did this by eye. It widened the hole just right.

I didn't measure anything at all and just drilled it til it looked like the hole was deep enough to fit the part of the ball that was exposed into it nicely. I put the knife partially together to give it a try and drilled it a bit further. Then on the second attempt at putting it together I was quite satisfied with the result. I did all of this on my small bench type drill press.

I would suggest visiting your dentist to see if he has a small dental inverted cone and a small diamond burr or if he'll save one of each for you when he is getting ready to throw them out. Most dentists throw them out after one use just ask them to sterilize it for you if they don't mind.

You could also call or visit a local dental supply dealer like Patterson or Henry Shien and ask them if you could buy one of each on a cash purchase. They may make you buy a five or ten pack but cheap diamonds are a buck a piece and cheap carbides are close to the same. They may even have a few samples if you hit up one of the girls and ask them.

Don't worry. They'll work fine even if dulled. It isn't like you have to drill that far into the blade. Look at the ball and get an idea of the size and you will be good to go.

Anyway that is how I did it.

Of course you could just order a smaller size carbide bit from a knife supplier too.

I basically turned my Scallion into a regular thumb stud one hand knife. You don't necessarily have to take off the flipper as I did, especially since you have the lock on this model and the Chive to keep the blade closed.

I would suggest that if you don't intend to take off the flipper too there is no need to make the detent ball work. Just use the lock after removing the spring so you don't accidentally open the knife in your pocket.

I will add this and I apologize for the length of this post. Once you take the spring out of a Chive or Scallion you will have to be aware that it is more prone to opening by accident with the spring removed than it ever was with the spring in place. The lock is necessary without adding a working detent ball hole to keep the blade safely closed. Taking off the flipper is necessary too if you don't wish to use the lock. This is so because even the detent ball can't keep your leg muscle from or a key chain or some other object from catching the flipper and pushing on it in the pocket. With enough force it will open and easier than ever with the spring or torsion bar taken out.

P.S. If you think you'd like to try this PM me and give me your address and I'll send you a couple of burrs for you to use. N/C. I can't do this for everyone but if you want a couple I'm ok with sending just one set out.
 
Well they sell em at the local wal-mart and since my dad was a cop for 30 years I know a few of them and they all tell me not to worry, but then again I live in cow country new york so... :cool: :p :D
 
This subject has been discussed at least a hundred times. Wal-Mart sells them. Sears (Craftsman) and Snap On tools both have runs made with their trade name on them. Many reputable retailers sell them. What is the favorite LEO gun shop in your area, I bet they sell them also. Better yet, don't engage in activity that would result in an LEO asking you to empty your pockets and you won't have anything to worry about.
 
Okay, my turn to throw in my two cents. I have a Chive, three Scallions, a Blackout, Twitch I and II, a Blink and a Trident. I have used and carried all three in public. I bought the Chive and the Blackout at the same Walmart on the Mason Dixon line, and had no problems. I would ask a police officer you feel confident in, one who wouldn't tell you what they thought and then immediately go to their boss to start an investigation etc. If you have an officer who thinks its wrong for you to have an assisted opener, you're just going to have to put up with that until you are before a judge, plain and simple. Instead of going to a cop, you could go to a college law professor, or a grad law student. One could mention the ACLU, but I don't trust them, they are some pretty hypocritical folks, they might turn you in! I personally have not found any reason for me not to carry them in my stomping grounds of the great republic of MD, but then I've never had any trouble to get pulled over for...
 
Your concern and desire to abide by the laws of this land are admirable.

This is assuming, of course, that you arn't a hood looking to knock off a liquor store, and hoping to reduce the number of charges that act may incure if you get caught.:-)

The point being that "Every Day Joe" is not going to get run off to jail just for having a K.O. knife. If there were a true legal issue, I am reasonable certain that Wal-Mart wouldn't sell them OTC.

As for those folks around you, you can only respect their sensabilities to a certain degree. At some point, it becomes encumbent upon THEM to not be offended, rather than for you not to offend them.

More of a political diatribe that good advice. Sorry.
 
Nope, no hooding on my part. I pay for my whiskey :D .

Just interested in other folks suggestions regarding this topic.
 
I Believe A Pocket Knife Is A Tool Not A Weapon. You Can Defend Yourself. You Can Do Damage With Your Keys, A Pen Or Even A Credit Card. Are They Against The Law To Carry? If You Are Aressted For Something And Your Carring A Knife I Think They Have To Prove That The Knife Was Used In The Crime. That Charge Should Be Dropped. But 911 Happened And Who Knows What Would Unfold.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top