Opinels: sharpening stones, stainless models

W

Way-O

Joined
Apr 25, 2004
Messages
729
All right, I browsed over the Opinel site. From what I could decrypt from French with my poor skills, their stainless has only "at least" 0.4 per cent of carbon (Opinel's carbon steel blades have 0.9% cc apparently). That does not sound good at all. I cannot expect any edge holding on such a thin knife, though I suppose the geometry would still allow slicing on many materials. I was going to buy a stainless for my poor ol' mother, who's not comfortable with modern locking systems along with some other models I'm ordering anyway. Probably won't do now.

Has anyone any first hand experience with the stainless Opinels? Please share. Even though I don't think I'm getting one, my curiosity has arised.

The other thing... Opinel sharpening stones, there's a nice pocket size one available here for a few euros. They recommend them for their carbon steel models. I'd like to know how these stones fare, I'm thinking touch ups on carbon steel blades and medium grade stainless (440 series, the usual AUS suspects). I'd like to hear experiences and rough estimates on the grid.

thank you for your responses, all input is appreciated.
 
Why don't you get her a good Finnish knife, like Kellam's Lapp folder? They use an old-fashioned lockback system. :D


Seriously, here's a recent thread on Opinel stainless: Opinel stainless blades. Since the Opinels are slightly convex, you might be best off stropping them to maintain the edge.
 
From my experience with Opinels.. They are dammm tough cutters & easy to sharpen! The carbon types must be cared for. The stainless models are Sandvik, a premium stainless that is easy to sharpen. They cut like hell! Also check out the Mora blades which also cut like HELL..! :eek: :eek:
 
Esav Benyamin said:
Why don't you get her a good Finnish knife, like Kellam's Lapp folder? They use an old-fashioned lockback system. :D


Seriously, here's a recent thread on Opinel stainless: Opinel stainless blades. Since the Opinels are slightly convex, you might be best off stropping them to maintain the edge.
Click to expand...

I have no idea who makes the Lapp folders for Kellam. I haven't seen them in any local manufacturers catalogues. Actually I'm not totally convinced that any of the Kellam folders are made here. They are not really accessible to me.

Though that really is not the issue, since the lockbacks are out of the question any way. A smaller Opinel would be a great lightweight light-use no-springs folder her purse. She's pretty sheeple, but has said she needs something to handle light cutting chores on the go.

I'll buy the report of edge holding being on par with the carbon models from the other thread. Thanks for the link. I actually read that before I think, but forgot all about it. Sadly the steel info is on a "I think" basis there.

Still, they hint on the Opinel site that their carbon steel blades would have better edge retention (if I read it correctly):
Les duretés obtenues après traitement thermique sont en principe légèrement supérieures avec des aciers ne contenant pas de chrome. La tenue à la coupe est donc meilleure avec un acier "au carbone" et moins durable avec un acier inoxydable
Click to expand...
Guess it's pretty much a YMMV case.

I wasn't really concerned about sharpening the Opinels, the sharpening stone was a different issue really. I've been looking for some cheap but decent pocket stones to hand out to friends, so they don't have to rely on my sharpening services ;) etc


pogo said:
From my experience with Opinels.. They are dammm tough cutters & easy to sharpen! The carbon types must be cared for. The stainless models are Sandvik, a premium stainless that is easy to sharpen. They cut like hell! Also check out the Mora blades which also cut like HELL..! :eek: :eek:
Click to expand...

Could I have a source on the claim that they are 12C27, please. Or that's what I suppose you mean.

This is the only reference I could find on the Opinel web site concerning the make up of their stainless:
L'acier inoxydable capable de subir le traitement thermique qui lui donne sa bonne dureté est appelé martensitique. Il a une teneur en carbone au moins égale à 0,40% ce qui permet d'obtenir un tranchant correct mais qui explique que les lames de couteaux ne soient pas parfaitement inoxydables. Seul un acier ne contenant pas de carbone le serait, mais il n'aurait pas la dureté garantissant une bonne coupe et une excellente tenue du tranchant.
Click to expand...
It'd be mighty strange that they make a point by saying that there's at least exactly 0.4 per cent carbon in the steel, if it were one of the Sandvik stainless knife steels (12C27, 12C27Mod, 13C26, 19C27). All those have 0.52% or above. The other martensitic stainless steels produced there have less than 0.4 per cent carbon. It doesn't add up, unless it's a typo. Of course it would be accurate to say that 12C27, for example, has at least 0.4% or more carbon, but the phrasing IMO does imply that they meant something else.

Of course it could be that they buy different stainless steels according to the market, and have set 0.4% of carbon as qualification for the material. So it could have been Sandvik made steel at a time.

And, I've had many moras, probably more than any other knife. The basic plastic handled models cost about 3 euros here. Great beaters.
 
I have a carbon-steel Opinel 10. They are very very sharp and hold their edge quite well. You just need to be nice to them (definitely no prying etc) and keep water off them, it discolours very easily (but tahts only aesthetics).

Water also causes the wood to expand, whereby its hard to get the blade out of the handle. If this happens there is a move u can use on opinels... You grab the Opinel by the opening ring with the blade facing downward, and hit the end of the knife on something hard. =)

Have fun, I don't think you'll regret getting an Opinel, at any rate.

-- Vince.
 
Never heard back from my email to Opinel (language barrier perhaps?) about the content of their blade steel in their modern stainless blades, from email I sent them some time ago.

However, the nice guy at Excalibur (multi-location knife retailer, Lloyd Center in Portland, OR) claims they are Sandvic. He carried Opinels in inventory for years until Opinel quite distribution in the US some time ago. Now, which Sandvic? There are several grades of Sandvic. I asked for corroborating evidence of Sandvic blades but he could only draw upon his life long experience retailing knives, unfortunately, not independent third party documentation.

But, here is a link to http://www.bushcraftuk.com/community/showthread.php?t=7311
Where Sandvik (sp) is discussed as the blade material used. Nice pics too. Found it for sale here $40! http://www.cutlerytogo.com/coutdejarn08.html

All the best,
oregon (PS, got the GIANT opinel, #13, WOW! what fit and finish, beautiful, on display in the cabinet, huge doesn't quite say it.)
 
Thanks Oregon.

After I read that thread you linked and browsed the Cutlery To Go and Couteuaux Courty sites, it seems likely that the new "Garden" and "Mushroom" knives are indeed 12C27, but the rest of the stainless models are made of the mystery steel discussed on the manufacturer's web page. Though I would not be that surprising if the whole line is now made with 12C27, and documentation just lags. They have no mention of the steel used in these two new models at all on the official website. (edit: I was wrong here, read further please)

I'll settle for this explanation until a better one comes along.
 
Most of the SS Opinels are not made of Sandvik 12C27. IIRC, the main supplier is Bonpertuis (France).

~Paul~
 
Thanks dePaul.

that indeed was the impression I got.

"at least 13% chromium"
"at least 0.4% carbon"

1.4035 / 1.4034+S (X45CrS13)?
I think it's availabe from Bonpertuis.
 
Here is communication between myself and a French retailer of Opinel knives about the content of the stainless Opinel blade:

------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. My email to Courty: How do you know the stainless blade material is Sandvik 12C27 in this knife (first knife shown): http://www.bushcraftuk.com/community/showthread.php?t=7311 I am looking for proof that Opinel uses Sandvik in order to settle a discussion at bladeforum.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

2. Response from Courty: Hello,

We have this information from Opinel maker. The stainles steel used by Opinel is 12C27 Sandvick steel.

Best regards.

Courty et Fils
Coutellerie - Armurerie
44, rue des petits Champs
75002 Paris
http://www.couteaux-courty.com
Tél : 01.42.96.59.21
Fax : 01.42.61.33.48

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Best,

oregon
 
Another email between myself and a French knife retailer regarding blade steel:

1. My email: Thank you kindly for the email. I really appreciate your information on Opinel stainless steel.

Do you have any information on the content of Opinel stainless steel in general? Do all stainless models use Sandvik 12C27 or do only a few select stainless models use Sandvik 12C27? Perhaps you can provide a link or post information from Opinel of documentation for the stainless Sandvik content. Here is a link to the discussion: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=360946


2. French response: Opinel use 2 differents steels : first is carbon steel (xc75) for the most of production. Second is 12C27 stainless steel for the new and garden production.

http://www.opinel.com/

Regards.

Courty et Fils
Coutellerie - Armurerie
44, rue des petits Champs
75002 Paris
http://www.couteaux-courty.com
Tél : 01.42.96.59.21
Fax : 01.42.61.33.48
 
You've been a big help oregon. If the reputation point system would still be active, I would have gave you a green one for every one of your posts in this thread. Courty cutlery gets my respect as well, for giving the time and effort to answer your queries. Good service there.

I also re-read the manufacturer's site. I was in error earlier, they actually do say they use Sandvik steel for the garden product line. So that's absolutely settled, and I'll say that the Le couteau de jardin N° 8 is most probably the one model to choose over the others if one needs to make such decision.

But... I'm now puzzled. I've heard the claim of the carbon steel being XC75 (aka 1075) before a couple of time. Still on the Opinel site, on the catalog page for the traditional models, they state clearly being "steel with high carbon content (0.9%)". This is not really a practical issue though, since both steels would yield similar performance in this type of knife.

Also it the vague info on the stainless used in the other (than the graden series)stainless models bugs me to no end. They state that the hardening temp is 1050 deg. Celsius. Would that match 1.4035 / 1.4034+S (X45CrS13)? For 12C27 I've heard 1060-1080 and exactly 1080, the latter suggested by SMT (Sandvik Materials Technology, the producer).

Edit:
1050 deg. Celsius sounds about right for 1.4035, since that's what seems to be good for 420F, essentially the same thing as I understand. Max hardness is said to be 55 Rockwell, perfectly serviceable, if pushed there. This info is from Aircraft Materials UK. The Opinel site doesn't mention drawing for the stainless steel even though they do for the carbon steel. This would support the idea that they leave their 420F full hard. (don't you just love it when a company gives you the tech stuff?)

Has anyone compared the brittleness between the traditional carbon steel and stainless models?
 
To make a comparison for no actual practical reason, the similar Marjacq knives make use of X46Cr13 (1.4034, 420S45). A slightly simpler steel. You can Google the makeup for comparisons I'm sure.
 
Could well be since it's been widely used. I've seen the carbon content vary from as far down as 0.36% though. Do you know who produces this? I also remeber vaguely that it had been discontinued (by a producer probably) and replaced by X46Cr13 in use. Don't quote me, I'll have to find the source if there's one to be found. These steels are very similar in any case.
 
Oregon has sent inquiries to Opinel not too long ago. No response. My French skills are really basic, I can read some and ask what time it is. I might try to compose something later, but ATM I'm still recovering from writing Nordic Viking a response in Swedish at Whine&cheese. :D
 
Here is a link to the English version of the Opinel site:

http://translate.google.com/transla...&prev=/search?q=opinel.com&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8

I got this translation by puting "Opinel" into the web search window of Google and clicking "Translate this page." When Opinel 1st page shows up click "entrez sur le site." Gotta love that Google. This site is a lot of fun. I had no idea of the extent of variations of the many models. SMKW (eknifeworks) has some of the best selection and lowest prices in my experience.

There is a contact form and I used this to email Opinel. I asked for details of the stainless steel used in their blades. Is all the stainless blade steel 12c27 or are there other formulas and if there is more than one type of stainless what are the types and in which models is each type used. I will post any response from Opinel.

All the best,

oregon
 
I received email directly from Opinel (commercial@opinel.com) today in answer to my question about the content of stainless steel used in modern Opinel knives. Here is their entire message:

"Dear Dunn,
First, we thank you for your interest in our brand and our products.
For your information, the stainless steel blade used for the Opinel kinves since the end of 2003, is a sandvik 12C27. It is the same for all.
I hope we answered your request,
We remain
Best regards
Opinel Team"

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

This "horse's mouth" information should lay to rest questions about Opinel Stainless blade material for knives produced from 2004 to the present.

In particular, however, your knife could possibly be old stock even if it was purchased yesterday. Too bad Opinel doesn't label each & every blade with the specific type of steel used. I would find it useful to see 12C27 laser etched into the blade, horizontally, next to the handle. Your dealer should be able to supply the manufacture date or you could purchase a new model like the COUTEAU DE JARDIN N°08 in order to be sure you are getting Sandvik 12C27 stainless blade steel.

All the best,

oregon
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top