Opinion on BM 750 Pinnacle vs. Chris Reeve Sebenza

Warriorsociologist

Warriorsociologist

Joined
Dec 12, 2001
Messages
1,670
Hello.

I do not want to start a shouting match here...Rather, I was wondering if anyone here has had any experience with both a 750 Pinnacle (plain edge, BT coating) from Benchmade AND a Chris Reeve Sebenza. A fair comparison should probably be between knives with ATS-34 blades (a new BM and an 'old' CR), but since I have just ordered a new one of each (the CR with BG-42 steel) for testing, I will do some of my own comparisons when they arrive to see if the CR is worth the extra $200+. Both seem to be great quality 6AL-4V Ti mono-locks. The BW has a slightly recurved blade that might give it a cutting advantage...but the reputation of the CR is difficult to ignore.

For everyone's info, when on long wilderness outings, or on duty (I am still in the Marine Reserves - 8yrs and counting), I like to carry three edged tools: a Chris Reeve Shadow IV, a Leatherman Wave, and a folder. Currently I carry a BM 910 Stryker (M2 steel). The Stryker is a great tactical knife, but was in no way meant for the skinning / food-prep chores that my wilderness outings demand of it. It seems that a mono-lock would be easier to clean blood, dirt, etc. out of than the Ti liner-lock in the 910. This is why I have been shopping for a new folder.


I thank you all in advance for your comments and wisdom.
 
the the monolock seems pretty solid, its the same concept as a liner lock right?

does anyone know how they compare to the axis lock? strength wise that is.

the only bad things ive heard about liner lock(i assume is the same as monolock) is that your finger has to be in the way when closing the blade, where as with axis lock its no where in sight.


im also a big fan of the WAVE. quality folder are very expensive for their size, so i probably wont be getting one anytime soon. ill stick with my WAVE and SAK and spend my money on fix blades.

i camp/hike alot, so im in the market for a big recurved blade for a chopping and a small srop point for general utility.


any suggestions?
 
Hmmm...a large, quality - yet inexpensive recurve fixed blade... The only one that comes to mind is the Smith $ Wesson Combat Fixed HRT knife. It is a HD full-tang, 440C (1/4" thick I think), knife with a molded sheath. *Note, however that the sheath is not kydex...rather it is some other molded plastic. Rumor has it that it is prone to cracking. Despite the potential problems with the sheath, the knife itself seems to be a winner (based on your pre-requisites).

Take a look:
http://store.knifecenter.com/pgi-Product Spec?SWHRTDR,

Good Luck!
 
I have handled both and the Sebenza feels better in my hand. The Sebenza's lock also feels more secure.
The Pinnacle is a very nice knife, it's a shame it was discontinued. A small version would have been nice too.
The price difference is a subjective thing.
The Pinnacle is the best production rival to the Sebenza to come out.

Paul
 
I think the differences will be easy to see, once you've got them both in your hands. I don't think there will be any particularly bad surprises in either case. The Pinnacle will feel great for a production folder, and the Sebenza's as-good-or-better-than-custom feel is apparent immediately.

Brief differences: For me, the Pinnacle's handle is way ahead of the Sebenza's, and I've always looked at the Sebenza's handle as its weak spot. The Pinnacle's edge geometry will be way behind the Sebenza's -- we're talking about the Sebenza's x-thin edge versus Pinnacle's kinda thick edge. The Pinnacle's recurved blade will make up for it to some extent, but you may want to spend a little time re-profiling the Pinnacle's edge. I dislike the Sebenza's tiny pointed thumb stud; Pinnacle's bigger thumb stud works better for me.

My feeling on whether or not the Sebenza's higher price is "worth it"? I think that if I always went by "worth it", I might not have any knives that cost over $35! We're not "worth it" people here, we're obsessive/compulsive knife buyers whose sense of reason has been beaten down by our basest cutlery desires :) That said, if I had $350 burning a hole in my pocket, I'd go for the Sebenza. If I had to dip into my kid's college fund to get the extra $200+, I'd stick with the Pinnacle -- it is an astoundingly good production folder whose performance will please me at every turn, and is unlikely to disappoint me in any way.
Joe
 
Originally posted by Paul Work

The Pinnacle is a very nice knife, it's a shame it was discontinued. Paul
Click to expand...

Hmm...does anyone know if it was discontinued due to lack of interest...or perhaps because of legal reasons (it was 'too' close to the Sebenza)?

I heartily thank all of you who have replied already! I agree that high-end cutlery can bring out the best and worst in peoples financial management strategies...myself included...but I would feel that the Sebenza was worth the extra $$ if I had any notion that the 750's lock would be more prone to loosening or that there was an appreciable difference in real-world edge-holding between the ATS=34 of the 750 and the BG-42 of the 'benza. I have one knife in BG-42, a Buck custom 100 with sambar stag handles. It is my permanent hunting companion. The steel is very nice...but I am unsure if I would notice the difference between an ATS blade ac RC 59-60 and a BG-42 blade at RC60-61.

So...can anyone speak directly to these concerns? Of course I also welcome other opinions and insights.
 
Rigormootis,

I have and use my BM Pinnacle and I have played with Sebenza several times. Quite naturally I have used the opportunities to inspect it as far as possible.

In fact the Pinnacle and the Sebenza are made of very similar (I would dare to say - of the same) materials. It is no difference in ATS-34 (or 154CM) and BG-42 real-life performance. Probably someone could notice the difference making particular edge retention tests but I bet even in this case the difference would be marginal as for real life conditions.

Well, now let's look onto difference in design. Pinnacle fit my hand far better, Sebsnza's handle is somewhat uncomfortable for me even just handling and I have no reasons to think it could be any more comfortable in hard work. Rather I could expect inversely...

Another my complaint about Sebenza is clip position. I would never feel myself safely and comfortably carrying so big liner lock or mono lock in tip-up position.

I have some complaints about Pinnacle also. Why they didn't make the thumb stud ambidextrous? And why they discontinued this model?

Reassuming: I can rely on $100+ Pinnacle but I'm not sure that $300+ Sebenza will do my job in my place.

Mike,
The main advantage of mono lock over liner lock is that it is no space to clog between liner and handle's slab. This makes mono lock more clogging resistant and easier to clean. Any advantages more? Honestly I don't know...

Mono lock certainly is not stronger against negative load because the locking bar at cutout area is not thicker than decent liner in liner lock equipped knife. Differently you couldn't disengage it.
And entire construction is not stronger that it's weakest place, right?

There are a lot of knives with liner locks - from pitiful up to excellent ones. There are only few knives with mono lock (frame lock, integral lock - basically it is the same construction). Too few comparison material to draw final conclusions...

Edited. I would like to quote Sal Glesser, maybe not too precisely but taking into consideration the sense: "The lock construction as itself is much less essential than how it is executed".
 
Agree strongly about the Pinnacle's handle fitting my hand much better than the Sebenza's. Also about the clip. In addition, the Sebenza's sharp little thumb stud is very handsome, but the Pinnacle's works better. Of course, the Sebenza has advantages too -- the overall fit & finish, the from-the-box edge geometry, generally speaking the locks *seem* better-constructed (and yes, I realize how things seem doesn't always indicate how they perform), etc.

I would like to quote Sal Glesser, maybe not too precisely but taking into consideration the
sense: "The lock construction as itself is much less essential than how it is executed".
Click to expand...

While in some ways I'd agree, at this point even Sal is tacitly admitting that the liner lock is too difficult to consistently construct in a reliable manner. Hence the development of the compression lock. In real life, you can look at these lock types and make general statements about their probable reliability, and very very often be right. Lock format isn't the whole story, but it's a big part of the story: if the problem being solved is very difficult -- as it is for the standard liner lock -- you are more often going to see problems. If the problem has been simplified -- as it is in the frame lock -- you'll see less problems. This is a standard engineering truism, I believe.

Joe
 
The Pinnacle/Monolock is a great buy at anywhere from $75.00-$95.00 street-price.

The large Sebenza is an even better buy at anywhere from $275.00-$310.00 street-price.

Street-price = what people sell them for here at the forums, since they know that selling them's gonna mean offering a price less than can be had online from dealers, etc.

While the Pinnacle is one heck of a brute-knife with quality materials and construction, the Sebenza is the "pinnacle (please excuse the pun)" of mankind's ability to manufacture hand tools.

I prefer the large Seb. over the Pinnacle by leaps and bounds, and I prefer the small Seb. over my large. The Seb. is easy-as-pie to disassemble, clean, and reassemble, even in the field if necessary. BG42 is a noticeably superior stainless steel to ATS34 or 154CM IMHO. This superioriy with the combination of a completely more functional blade-edge geometry out of the box makes my choice clear, and I have 0 complaints about long-term use vs. comfort with the Seb's.

There's no simple answer. One needs to handle both, see which tickles your pickle, and cross-reference it with how much one is willing to spend to acquire one or the other level of quality.

Professor.
 
I have owned both knives.

I bought the Pinnacle first and was disappointed with it immediately. This is not a statement about the quality of the knife, mind you, just about my personal reaction to it. I didn't like the texture of the scales, the shape of the grip, or the action of the mechanism. Maybe I got a lemon. Maybe I just have strange tastes...

Later I bought a Large Sebenza and liked it immediately. I'm a fan of minimalist design and this knife really uses that approach to advantage. It is not as ergonomic as some knives, but it is extremely functional. My only gripe was that it looked a bit too plain, even for me, so I had CRK anodize it with their "Trailing Moon" graphic. Now it suits me perfectly. I carry it every day.

Aside from the relative merits of those two knives, which are considerable, I would suggest you look at a few others for use when hunting. The discountinued Spyderco Wegner (at Bayou Lafourche Knife Works, among others) may be the best production folding for skinning ever made. In a higher price range I would also look at Bob Dozier's custom folders, several of which are specifically designed for hunting.

--Bob Q
 
I've had three Pinnacles over the past couple of years. In the same time I've also owned a few Sebenza's. I now have 3 Sebbies and 0 Pinnacles! While I do like the shape of the handle and blade on the Pinnacle it just doesn't match up to the Sebenza. Of course at 1/3 the price it shouldn't:D

All three of the Pinnacles developed vertical play in short order and one had lateral play to boot. I never could get them adjusted to my liking without having the blade so tight it was extremely difficult to open. Just my preference. I had both versions of the Pinnacle, pre-pro with the wide lock and the newer version with the thinner lock bar.

I think BM had a good idea and with better QC now could make a nice monolock. It would cost the consumer more if it included all of CRK's innovations, i.e. roller bearing for the blade, and might not be practical for them to produce. I was really excited when the Pinnacle first came out and also thought "here is a knife that will give the Sebenza a run for its money", and "finally, a poor mans Sebenza" well it didn't run with the Sebbie AND it ain't NO FUN being poor;)!!

If you have never handled a Sebenza then you might be satisfied with the 750......once you have handled a Sebenza you will never find satisfaction with the 750 in present form.

Just one mans $.02 worth:) :)
 
I have both and my experience with the 750 has been good. It is, however, in no way in the same class as the Sebenza. The way the Sebbie "snicks" open the exact same way every time I open it still amazes me.

Also, the edge geometry on the Sebbie makes it cut like crazy. It's still in a class of it's own. It should be, too, considering it's cost.:eek:
 
The knives have arrived. My initial impressions completely confirm what I had expected to find - and what many of you have suggested - the 750 is not in the same 'class' as the Sebenza.

I found both to be pleasant to hold...but I was able to partially disengage the lock on the 750 with only a moderate grip (my BM 910 does not have this problem). Removing the 750's pocket-clip would likely help in this regard. The blade on the Sebenza was scary-sharp (not that this is reason to discount the 750). The fit and finish of the Sebenza was noticeable better. The only things I liked about the 750 over the Sebenza were the tip-down carry position when using the pocket-clip and the blade geometry. My preference for a tip-down carry is likely due to the fact that I am more used to that orientation - and I do feel that it provides a faster "draw." However, I also feel that when using a tactical lanyard system, it is nice to have the lanyard holes on the part of the knife that is exposed from the pocket. As for the blade geometry, I like the subtle recurve of the 750, but I have no lack of confidence in the cutting ability of the 'benza.

The verdict is that I am keeping the Sebenza. Is it worth the extra $200??? I say yes...but that's me. If I were wanting to have many knives, I may feel otherwise...but I tend to go for quality over quantity. Now I have 3 folders...a Sebenza (plain, BG-42 stonewashed), a BM 910 (M2 steel) and a Buck 110 custom (BG-42, sambar stag handles, nickel bolsters). These three knives do everything I ask of each of them - specific to my individual needs for each.

I will try to post some side-by-side comparison photos soon.
 
I finally developed some of the photos I took...could I email them to someone here with a Prem. or Gold membership to post???
 
Or, you could just pay the $30 and become a Gold member yourself. It helps keep this forum open. Besides, it's what any good Devil Dog would do. :)


Semper Fidelis
 
Rigormootis,You'll see in rdangerer's post an old thread in which I stated that I bought a Pinnacle ,traded it back to My dealer Friend,handled a Large Plain Sebenza,and regretted trading the Pinnacle back in to Him.Well last month I purchased a slightly used Pinnacle on this Forum and am I ever happy that I did.Next week I'm going to the Gun Show to visit with My dealer Friend and if He has the Sebbie I'll handle it again.But I'm sure I'll wind up buying that same Pinnacle back if He still has it.And as You stated while cleaning debris out of a BM910 is difficult,it's very easy to clean the Mono-lock.Don't forget "Oops,I left My Sebbie in the APC" hurts more than losing Your Pinnacle.Just MY 2 cents worth.tom.:D
 
Originally posted by Danbo
Or, you could just pay the $30 and become a Gold member yourself. It helps keep this forum open. Besides, it's what any good Devil Dog would do. :)


Semper Fidelis
Click to expand...

You're right. :) I'll post the pictures here when my new gold membership becomes active (should be in a few days I assume).

OwenM, Thanks for your offer!
and...

Originally posted by deputy tom
Don't forget "Oops,I left My Sebbie in the APC" hurts more than losing Your Pinnacle.Just MY 2 cents worth.tom.:D
Click to expand...

I very much agree! Thus, I keep my BM910 and my sebbies. The BM will be clipped in my pocket for speedy access (and higher risk) and the CRK will be beside my Leatherman in a TAD sheath. http://www.tripleaughtdesign.com/s1.htm)

Take care.
 
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