Opinions needed Not that any of you are shy! Investment grade blades?

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May 19, 2003
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Would like to get your opinions on what you consider an Investment grade Blade?
I was told by a well respected maker and others that:
1. Only forged blades
2. Only blades with Ivory , Ebony or Pearl on the handles
Are considered Investment grade blades.
Is this so?

What do I mean by Investment Grade...You tell me.
 
I suppose investmant grade can mean a few things. However, to say forged only with fancy materials is not totally accurate in all cases. Look at Loveless knives, plenty are basic stock removal with synthetic handle materials, and I would say that whoever got them early on made a good investment.

Plenty of other similar examples out there also.
 
Blinker
You should get various posting on this one.
to me the way you have it written that poor old no talent Wolfgang Lochner is left out. ;)
In my personal opinion on investment grade knives. There are three basic levels of knives. Field grade, Presentation grade and investment. There are three levels in each of these sections. You can have an investment grade hunter or large piece for way far difference in moneys. So "investment grade knife" is too much area to cover without more specifics. course then too I just got out of the studio from forging and I be hot. I did learn one thing today though. Never pet a burning dog.
j
 
I agree that it doesn't have to be forged to contain a great deal of value as an investment. The most important aspects for any collector (I think) are the quality of design and the capabilities of a maker to make evident their immense skill in the construction of the knife. Forged knives carry an additional layer of necessary skill and aesthetic ability, but it isn't the only way.

For me, an investment-grade knife is something that speaks to me on a level beyond its functional capabilities, as something that condenses the art and craftsmanship of knifemaking into a single piece.

Nitin
 
neetones.
You went to school didn't you. I sure like the way your worded it in your last paragraph. That summed it up quite nice.
 
Neetones, I agree. Your second paragraph says it all.

But, I'm still wondering why Jerry is petting burning dogs...:dunno:
:)
 
Any knife that has the name Fisk stamped on it, could certainly be called an investment grade knife.
 
I think that most of the popular knifemakers out there, as well as many not so popular knifemakers, are artisans to highest degree.

Most of each of their knives are impeccably built and most makers have their own distinct style that seperates their knives from other makers producing similar knives.

I believe, out of my short term experience of collecting, that it's probably a lot more important to pick the right maker than the right grade of knife(i.e., field or presentation) in order to have a chance at making a real financial return on your investment.

I don't think custom knives are a trustworthy investment to count on. In fact I believe most collectors will lose money on their customs especially after factoring in opportunity costs of passing up more conventional types of investments. Just my opinion.

Nevertheless, some people will get lucky. Most won't, IMO.
 
Good to hear from all of you as I suspected there will be some diverse opinions.
That is a good thing!
Every opinion counts and it will be great to hear from the opposite's as well as those who agree.

Candor gentlemen...Thats what will make this even more interesting!
 
Neetones,
Nope, and I don't make comments here any heavier than I did earlier :)
Some things you just learn over time.
 
I don't think that forging has anything to do with a knife being considered an investment. Many of the best investments have been from the stock removal guys.

Investment grade is a misnomer as far as I am concerned. One maker could make a knife using all the most highly prized materials and the knife will never increase in value, while another can use basic materials and have the knife increase immensely in value over the years. What is most important is who made the knife, how much the maker's knives are in demand and how much demand outstrips availability.
 
Keith Montgomery said:
I don't think that forging has anything to do with a knife being considered an investment. Many of the best investments have been from the stock removal guys.

Investment grade is a misnomer as far as I am concerned. One maker could make a knife using all the most highly prized materials and the knife will never increase in value, while another can use basic materials and have the knife increase immensely in value over the years. What is most important is who made the knife, how much the maker's knives are in demand and how much demand outstrips availability.

i agree with this 100%, look at ernie emersons stuff, plain old vanilla folders going for $1K and up, not to mention the few fancy knives he has made, its the supply/demand thing.
 
Keith Montgomery said:
I don't think that forging has anything to do with a knife being considered an investment. Many of the best investments have been from the stock removal guys.

Investment grade is a misnomer as far as I am concerned. One maker could make a knife using all the most highly prized materials and the knife will never increase in value, while another can use basic materials and have the knife increase immensely in value over the years. What is most important is who made the knife, how much the maker's knives are in demand and how much demand outstrips availability.
What causes this? What can determine why one makers knives are more desirable then another maker? In other words, what factors determine this? Is it advertising, customer feedback, look of the knife or the amount of experience and length of time the maker has been making knives? I've always wondered why a knife made of certain materials and design from one maker is sold or valued higher then a knife that is made pretty much the same from another maker? :confused:
Scott
 
I think what Blinker is getting at is not what makes a knife a good investment, but what makes it "investment grade". I think there is a difference. A knife can be investment grade without being a necessarily good investment financially. I.E., I consider David Broadwell's carved fighters as perfect examples of investment grade work. Whether or not they are worth significantly more down the road remains to be seen. On the other hand, anything Jerry builds will be a good investment financially, but a Micarta handled bowie from him is not an "investment grade" knife.

There is no question in my mind that a knife featuring carving, intricate engraving or gold inlays along with premium handle materials, and perhaps most importantly of all, impeccable workmanship, is "investment grade". You are paying well above the intrinsic value of the knife for the labor and materials used to construct it and it becomes more valuable artistically than functionally.
 
Blinker,

Whenever I hear the term "investment", this implies a monetary aspect. Hopefully, a positive return.

If that is the case, IMO, I'd work my way backwards and look at the types of blades that have historically seen appreciation. Unfortunately, there is no guarantee that history will repeat itself. The safest "investment" type blades, if bought at maker or market prices would probably be those by makers who are currently in high demand. On the other hand, any well-made blade bought right (relatively cheaply) can likely do well.
 
blademan 13 said:
I A knife can be investment grade without being a necessarily good investment financially.

Precisely why the term is a bit of a misnomer. Connotation and denotation are vastly different. The term seems to suggest a category of knives that are good investments, but in reality it refers to knives that reflect the height of the makers artistry and craftsmanship, usually employing the best materials available. Said knives may or may not be good investments.

To the extent that the term suggests that knives with expensive materials are inherently better investments, I would disagree with that completely.

Speaking of materials, the class of "investment grade" handle materials is certainly much broader that ivory, ebony and pearl. In fact, there are about six or eight wood choices I'd rank above ebony. And come to think of it, how many pearl-handled forged knives do we see around?

Oh yeah, and the forged-only thing is just nonsense.

I would try to be a little more organized an coherent, but the two year old in my lap wants me to read her a book.

Cheers,

Roger
 
I've been told that only ivory and pearl stay in high demand over time - I don't think ebony is quite there. In fact, I personally find ebony pretty boring as far as woods are concerned. I think a fine burl, ironwood, or rosewood, looks ten times better, but that's just me.

Investment should mean that you have a reasonable expectation to be able to turn around and sell the knife and make a reasonable profit. If what you want is more a family treasure, then I would call that heirloom quality. Not exactly the same thing.

I personally believe that the *vast* majority of knives, even from ABS MS, loose value over time. I have no experience in fancy folders, so my opinion is purely limited to fixed blades.

This is based on limited experience trying to sell knives, or buying top quality knives at ridiculous prices.

The knives where I made a profit were early, simple knives, typically in the $100 - $400 range, from people who went on to become top names. Of course, it's hard to guess that ahead of time - quality is a necessary but not a sufficient condition to achieve "knife stardom".

If I were to trully invest money in a knife collection, I would seek good quality, simple and reasonably priced knives from makers with great potential - Dan Farr, Terry Primos, Jason Knight, Nick Wheeler, etc. Even those guys fetch fairly high prices from retailers (sometimes very high), so I would endeavor to buy directly from them.

One thing to take into account is the horizon. For a short term, most top name makers are fairly safe investments, but for the long term, it's hard to see who will have the following of a Moran or a Loveless.

Finally, we all need to look at the big names out there and assess the quality of their work. There are makers whose work's value is based on a long history of quality and leadership, and there are others whose value are not supported by the quality of their work.
 
RogerP said:
...but in reality it refers to knives that reflect the height of the makers artistry and craftsmanship, usually employing the best materials available. Said knives may or may not be good investments.

That's about as good a definition as I could have come up with. I have also seen this level of knife called presentation, dress or upscale. Those are probably more appropriate than investment, but I think they all mean the same thing.

Investment grade knives are the ones with the fancy materials, engraving, scrimshaw, carving, custom leatherwork, silver wire inlay, etc. Wood handles can definitely be seen on investment grade knives, especially when silver wire inlay is included.
 
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