opinions on a few steels

[hardheart]

I'd like to ask the opinion of the subject matter experts on the relative performance of some carbon steels. For a large chopper ~12" blade, camp/utility knife ~7" tapered with a point capable of fine work, and a 3 finger knife ~3" and as thin as could be made. I've just been looking at a lot of sites and reading commentary, but would like a more direct comparison of how these steels are to work and heat treat, and if any are more suitable.

W1 (seems to vary in listed composition, but diehl's seems interesting, does anyone use them?)
5160
52100
O1

I'd have the blades coated, so rust shouldn't be a problem. Would these all make bainite (for the chopper), or would an S steel or L6 be better/simpler/easier?

Also, I've been known to stick a blade in a fire to work the wood around, so are these temper resistant enough, I've read 1095 isn't. Maybe I should just carry a poker along.

 

[B Finnigan]

Are forging or stock removing?

 

[David Schott]

I dont think youll want to stick any knife in any fire for any length of time. other than some odd stainless steels, you can quickly blow straight through tempering temperature ranges in the tip of a knife with little effort with something as small as a butane lighter.

Im not sure about 52100, but for the rest of these, once that steel hits blue color, the HT is ruined for the most part. These steels are commonly tempered in the 375-475 range. If you stick one in a fire and the tip goes beyond that, you now have a soft tip.

 

[hardheart]

I guess stock removal, though that depends if the steel is available in flat stock. I need to choose among the steels, how they should be treated, and then see who actually does that. I'm not looking for anything fancy in the blade profile or handle materials, so choice of a maker would be more on if he uses the steels I decide on, and wait time. Oh, and cost, I'm poor

I should just keep my knives out of the fire, I guess. I mostly used old cheap-o blades, and always have a bit of redundancy, so it wasn't a big concern then. If I get something custom made, I don't want to go and ruin it from something so silly. I don't know how fast a thin tip would heat up in a fire, but it seems it's a bad idea to risk it.

I might muster up the courage to make a knife myself one day, but my metal fab history has been really simple cutting & welding without the knowledge knifemakers can have with the properties and required handling of the specific steels. So for now I'm just trying to see if I can determine part of the process myself, with lots of help

 

[Larrin]

Of those steels O1 is by far the easiest to obtain for stock removal. O1 is also pretty good stuff. I don't know a whole lot about bainite, but all steels can be heat treated for bainite, it just might take longer than others. I don't know if O1 being deeper hardening than those other alloys would mean it takes longer or not, or how much longer that would mean.

 

[Will52100]

For stock removal, O-1 or 5160, or a good car spring. 1084 would also do well, but can be hard to find in the size needed for a chopper.

For forging I've found nothing better than 52100, provided you jump through the hoops for the heat treat and handling. 5160 does well forged also, but not quite the performance of 52100.

L-6 will make a very tough blade provide your heat treat is dead on. With Cruciable's L-6 the added chrome can make it hard for simple forge tools to properly normalize and heat treat, it likes to air harden. It can be done but isn't as simple a heat treat as 1084 or 5160.

It doesn't matter as much on steel choice as it does proper heat treat, the finest magic steel with improper heat treat can be out performed by the lowest quality steel with a spot on heat treat.