Opinions on Buck's 420HC

J

Jamesh Bond

Joined
Jan 14, 2007
Messages
1,760
Ive often wondered why buck uses this almost exclusively, even on expensive knives. They say they harden it to 58, which would seem to me to imply that the normally low opinion and low carbon content is a moot point with their blades.

I will say that through my limited use of their steel, i am honestly blown away with how they got it to perform. Mine hold an edge forever compared to my other 420HC knives, which are like butter.

So, if this steel is considered bottom of the barrel because of low carbon, and if carbon is needed for hardness, then how are they getting it to 58 ? Again, their info seems to make the low attributes of this steel a moot point.

It seems like a paradox. Either way tho, i am impressed as hell with the way Buck does 420HC. I guess if they get it to perform this well there is no need to upgrade.

What are your thoughts on this ?
 
I think it just goes to show how important a good heat treat can be. While it may not be the "best" steel, it is a good overall steel that the majority of users can easily sharpen and won't break the bank.
 
In the current day, I don't think it's really unusual or uncommon to get RC 58 from this steel or other similar steels with similar carbon content (~0.5% carbon, give or take). I think many manufacturers using 420HC have just been more conservative with heat treat of it and many other common steels (440A, 1095, etc), as compared to Buck's treatment of the steel. Manufacturers making long-term use of it might just be set in their ways, for how they continue to treat it (Case Cutlery has still maintained good results with the steel at 54-57 HRC; they don't seem to be in a hurry to fix what ain't broke). I think Latrobe Steel, the inventor of it, initially recommended mid-50s HRC as the limit for it years ago. Improvements in manufacturing and heat treat methods over the last 2 or 3 decades might have made it easier to bump it up a notch in hardness now, for those who're willing to push it a little further (Buck's Paul Bos was ahead of the curve on that).

I get a similar impression from Sandvik's steels, some of which are similar in makeup to 420HC with carbon in the 0.5-0.6% range. Sandvik has spec'd their 12C27Mod (used in Opinel's stainless line) up to RC 59, and it's carbon content is in that same range. Sandvik's good reputation is based on their pure & clean processes for manufacturing steel (probably benefitting from improved technology, as compared to 20-30 years ago); and that reduces impurities and therefore allows the steel to be pushed further, with good or great results.

I continue to be disappointed with many 1095 blades, for example, because too many manufacturers seem unwilling to take it as far as it can go (like Schrade USA did, up to 60-62 HRC), and instead limiting it to mid-50s HRC and lower at times. And the same seems to hold true with many manufacturers using 440A & 440C; just too conservative, too often. Buck Knives also took their older 440C blades higher in hardness; but at the time (into the late '70s/early '80s), many complained it was too hard to sharpen on the tools many were using, like Arkansas stones. This may account for why many manufacturers weren't willing to take their steels harder, even if the steel itself might've always been capable of it.


David
 
Last edited:
In the real world, 420HC is not a bottom of the barrel by any means.

It's position may be seen by some as such, but views are often skewed by prejudice. For the steel snobs that absolutely have to have the very latest wonder steel of the month, 420HC may b e bottom of the barrel. But for the rest of the real world that only needs a sharp knife to cut something, it's a perfectly fine steel. As is plain old 1095, Case CV, and whatever some day laborer in some other part of the world issuing to cut up a goat for dinner, or a sack of something to use on the farm or ranch.

It's easy to get a slanted view on a forum like this, but in any bobbie field it gets a bit over blown. No matter cars or guns or whatever. The gun aficionado thinks he needs the latest greatest black rifle to go deer hunting, while some parts of the world they use beat up old single barrel shotguns for everything including dangerous game like Jaguar.

Use 420HC for a while and you may be surprised at how ell it performs day to day. Truth is, most people wouldn't know the difference in what steel their knife is, on a day to day basis. The 420HC, 440A, 1095, CV, 12C27, AUS8, all do well for knife use.
 
Buck's 420HC is better than most other 420HC because of their heat treat; they really REALLY know how to work that steel.

I personally like 420HC a lot. It's quite versatile for everyday tasks. I like to use 420HC, Sandvik 12C27M, and HC 1095 for most all of my bladed tools.

I have one small folder in AUS8 that seems really nice.. gets good and sharp, just not sure if it keeps it.
 
the term "low carbon" can be confusing. NO STEEL can hold more than 0.1% carbon inside its iron molecules. however, if you keep heating the steel and there's carbon somewhere, you produce iron carbide Fe3C, which holds a lot of carbon. so your carbon knife "steel" is a mixture of steel and iron carbide, and your total carbon content can go as high as 1.5% as a result. you can tweek that combination (and the quality of the carbide --cementite, perlite, martensite, etc.) through proper heat treating.

with powder steels, the carbon issue is moot since you can put in as much metal carbide as you want, bypassing the 0.1% limit for plain steel.
 
jackknife said:
In the real world, 420HC is not a bottom of the barrel by any means.

It's position may be seen by some as such, but views are often skewed by prejudice. For the steel snobs that absolutely have to have the very latest wonder steel of the month, 420HC may b e bottom of the barrel. But for the rest of the real world that only needs a sharp knife to cut something, it's a perfectly fine steel. As is plain old 1095, Case CV, and whatever some day laborer in some other part of the world issuing to cut up a goat for dinner, or a sack of something to use on the farm or ranch.

It's easy to get a slanted view on a forum like this, but in any bobbie field it gets a bit over blown. No matter cars or guns or whatever. The gun aficionado thinks he needs the latest greatest black rifle to go deer hunting, while some parts of the world they use beat up old single barrel shotguns for everything including dangerous game like Jaguar.

Use 420HC for a while and you may be surprised at how ell it performs day to day. Truth is, most people wouldn't know the difference in what steel their knife is, on a day to day basis. The 420HC, 440A, 1095, CV, 12C27, AUS8, all do well for knife use.
Click to expand...

Thank you for that post.

I've been in various predicaments that have required a knife, or anything sharp for that matter. The last thing on my mind in those cases was, "I wonder what kind of steel this is?".

I've been in conversations with guys that are like that with cars, tractors, tools, motor oil, electronics, and even plumbing parts for heaven's sake. I've been guilty of that sort of thing, too.

There's a lot to be said for just getting the job done.
 
$20hc by Buck is excellent,takes and holds edge well.Doesnt rust,even when neglected.Excellent working steel and basically all you need for edc.
 
Yep.

When i got my first Buck a few years ago after only owning the standard Benchmade, Cold Steel, Spyderco, etc., i was very pleased and almost pissed that it pretty much outperformed some high end knives with higher raved about steel.

Paul Bos da man.

Thx.
 
I personally love the Buck 420HC.

Easy to sharpen, holds an edge and only needs stropping to maintain it.
 
Yep, I agree. Some makers are known for a certain steel. I think Buck and 420HC are one of them. Nobody does this steel like Buck, NOBODY. And they can get it in your hands for very little money.
 
I had no idea about 420C until I recently purchased a Chairman Series Cadet. I agree with McCord that it is easy to sharpen and holds an edge.
 
Bucks 420HC is listed as having a .8 carbon content, significantly higher than Kershaw and Gerber from what I understand. When Buck switched over to the 420HC they did so because they could treat it to 58hrc without edge stabilization issues and increase corrosion resistance (as compared to the 440 and 425 stainlesses they had used before) at the same time. Being designed with the intend of being used exclusively for light cutting tasks, this steel performs extremely well. And in some cases it will take a good beating too, but beware the ultra thin hollow grind on some, Buck did not intend these for abusive activities. I've used and loved the Buck 420hc since its inception, it is a great compromise
 
cody, you've been reading some incorrect writings. There was no problems with edge stabilization issues at Buck with 440C or 425M. Buck went to 420HC because the other steels were hard on tooling. Whereas 420 is not. Thus, more knives can be produced with less cost (less wear). The 58rc was merely a target they were able to achieve for 420 by utilizing their cryogenic treatment. DM
 
420HC isn't 420HC at all, if it has 0.8% carbon content; 420HC tops out around 0.55% carbon, by any meaningful definition. The inventor of 420HC, Latrobe Specialty Steel, only spec'd 0.46% carbon for it (data sheet linked below). Calling it '420HC' with that much more carbon (0.8% is >60% higher than 420HC's spec for carbon) is basically the same as renaming something like AUS-8 as '420HC', which effectively renders any comparisons with true 420HC meaningless. Some '420HC' variants by other manufacturers vary the makeup a little bit, but not by that much. Still calling it '420HC' with 0.8% carbon would convey a level of deceit about the steel that wouldn't do Buck's (or any other mfr's) reputation any good; I'm sure they know better than that.

http://customer.cartech.com/assets/documents/datasheets/LSS_420_HC.pdf


David
 
Last edited:
I also recall reading a reply from Buck with regards as to why they continue to use 420HC where so many other knife makers have gone on to newer steels (note how I did not say "better").

Paraphrasing, their reply was something along the lines of, "because it works. X number of years using it, we see no reason to use anything else, as real-world experience tells us that our 420HC is perfectly acceptable."

More or less..
 
Yes, there were so many errors in cody's post that I didn't address them all. Just needs to read from better sources. And visit the Buck Forum as they have the Real skinny.
Buck has used no less than 11 different steels thru the years with their 110 and I may be missing one. Some good steels have come on a 110 besides 420HC. DM
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top