Opinions on Mokume & Damasteel?

What is Mokume? Is it "stainless?" Where is it on the Rc scale? Who makes it? What are your opinions on it?

Who makes Damasteel? What steels are in it? I know it is Swedish stainless damascus. Where is it on the Rc scale? How corrosion resistant is it? How should it stand up to every day carry / use compaired to 154CM?

-AR

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- AKTI Member ID# A000322
 
R

Ryan Meyering

Joined
May 4, 1999
Messages
534
Mokume is pattern welded of different materials; I think it's generally copper, brass silver and/or gold. I don't know too much about damasteel, other than what you already wrote. You'll find a lot of information if you do a search of the shop forum for mokume and damasteel.

Ryan

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For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 6:23


 
See this link for more information on damasteel which is a Swedish company's interpretation of pattern welded steel (damascus):

Damasteel AB

Mokume is also a pattern welded material, but is non-ferrous (no iron). Precious metals are forged together to make interesting patterns. This material is never used for blades, as it can be very soft (it is not steel). It is often used in jewelry, and in knives, as bolster material for fancy folders.

I lifted this line from the site linked below:

Mokume gane (moku "wood" me "eye" gane "metal") is a technically difficult and time consuming process. It was invented in Japan by Denbei Shoami, a 17th century master metalsmith, who used it for the adornment of samurai swords.

What is Mokume

For a really interesting discussion of bladesmithing, pattern welded steel, and mokume, I highly recommend Don Fogg's website at:

www.dfoggknives.com

Hope this helps

Paracelsus

[This message has been edited by Paracelsus (edited 04-10-2000).]
 
I have one Damasteel blade, of the RWL34/PMC27 variety. RWL34 is considered equivalent to ATS-34, while PMC27 equates to Sandvik 12c27. It is quite workable, and compares well to either of these steels.

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AKTI Member #A000832

"Sometimes you eat the bear, and sometimes, the bear eats you."
 
Thanks again guys...

...what is Les's "beef" with mokume then? Just a personal preference thing?

-AR

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- AKTI Member ID# A000322
 
Jac, the Mokume is beautiful stuff! with time it patina's nicely and has a subtle beauty that is great and worth the price of admission!

Rick Hinderer makes his own and I had a nice small Damascus tanto, his damascus as well, with a Mokume bolsters. But the above post is correct it's not steel and not hard, its meant for furnishings on knives and swords and the patterns within are the draw to it.

Good stuff,
G2

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"The Road to Hell is Paved with Good Intentions!"
Take the time to read your Bible Now, don't be left behind...


G2 LeatherWorks
 
I have several folders with Mokume bolsters.It's beautiful stuff each one is different according to how its made-just like damascus.If you look on the side you can see the layers.It will tarnish like brass
so you may have to use some Simichrome to shine it up.
 
Jackyl, In all honesty I enjoy mokeme on some of the fancier stuff I collect. In addition to others mentioned and not mentioned, Hugh Bartug, Mel Pardue, Devin Thomas and many others forge it.

I would not want it on any of my working/heavy use knives it is very soft. (I can attest from the jerk that slammed the pictured one in the Pardue post down on a table one time. The other side of the knife has a nice dent in the mokeme.)

Most of my comments in the Mel Pardue thread as far as mokeme and jigged bone were meant as humor and as you can see Les responded in kind. (I would be willing to bet my entire collection he was not arrested for murder in Canada!), but his point is quite valid.

Although I have seen jigged bone that in my opinion looks beautiful, the source is still the shin of bovines (not exactly an exotic or rare or state of the art material that can take a lot of use and some abuse without cracking).

Mokeme is so soft a healthy fingernail and a good bit of pressure can damage it. I am not sure of the RC. In my opinion, it can be beautiful and I own and will continue to own some work that incorporates its use, but it is darn soft. As a rule, they are pretty much "wall hangers" in my collection rather than a "user" or even one I would carry around without a nice plush case to keep it protected. I think that the softness might be what Les is referring to when he jokes that Mokeme is Japanese for "should not be on a knife".

It might be a small improvement on using lead as a handle material for a knife that is intended for anything above very light use.

A friend on TKCL found this site a while back. It should cover some of the more technical aspects of Mokeme. (Thanks Aaron!)The technical article was written by one of the guys that owns a site in one of Para's links above.

Site for Mokeme information

As far as Don's site (again see Paracelsus' post for the link), it is in my top five as far as knives go and has been there from the beginning. (Knives aside, it also happens to be a well done site as far as presentation.) There is a wealth of information, inspiration and wisdom there. If you are a collector or maker, it would be well worth your time to check out the whole site.

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"Life is too short to carry an ugly knife." Steve F.



[This message has been edited by Gus Kalanzis (edited 04-10-2000).]
 
Damascus? Mokume? A picture is worth a thousand words. One of my ever growing Turnbull collections. Sorry, but you have to see the width....

<a href="http://pangea.stanford.edu/~nathan/turnbull2a.jpg" target="_blank">Click here for a really big picture that caused the Scrolling Screen of Death, forcing Spark to edit this post!!!!!</a>

[Edited to remove the SSoD - Bad Fraccy! Bad! Spark]

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Dances with lemmings
Accept M/C, VISA free, 5$ bonus to sign on.

[This message has been edited by Spark (edited 04-10-2000).]
 
Dude, that is AWESOME!!! Thanks for sharing man.

-AR

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- AKTI Member ID# A000322
 
Francmeister! Nice knife. But I don't your picture is Really worth a thousand words. Turnbull's knife is awesome. But it is now darned near impossible to read this thread. I thought there was some interesting discussion and links being provided. I guess the picture is more important than all Those words.

Paracelsus, who has seen a lot of pictures, and still likes words.
 
Thanks for fixing that, Spark.

Fracmeister, that bolster is amazing. I don't really like lockbacks, or damascus blades, but damascus/mokume bolsters are great.

--JB

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e_utopia@hotmail.com

[This message has been edited by e_utopia (edited 04-11-2000).]
 
my apologies... and my sympathies to the bandwidth impaired. anyway, I have some SWEET ones on their way to me, so expect some MASSIVE improvements to the old website in a month or so... you will be the first to know.

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Dances with lemmings
Accept M/C, VISA free, 5$ bonus to sign on.
 
Hahahaha...thanks Spark.
smile.gif


-AR

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- AKTI Member ID# A000322
 
Jackyl,

When I first started in this business, Nickel Silver and Brass were all the rage. As collectors started to demand more from the makers, to include no maintenance. Nickel Silver and Brass started to be replaced by stainless steel guards and frames (interframe folders).

I guess because I was the one always polishing those knives I grew tired of doing it. So I was happy to see Brass and Nickel Silver go away.

Personally, I love Damascus. However, then some evil person got the idea of producing Mokume (to prove his evilness he used a word which translated from ancient Kanji, means "should not be put on a knife").

Mokume is great when you first get it, then much like Nickel Silver it quickly starts to lose its luster. It starts to patina (nice word for "getting ugly").

Now do you let it continue to go dull or do you constantly clean it.

Just to show you how cruel the knife Gods are. I was tricked into taking a knife with Mokume. A Stan Fujisaka folder with Damascus blade, Mastodon Ivory scales and a Mokume bolster. Note, this was not in the description and I had not seen the knife before.

Of course I didnt realize it was Mokume until I polished it.

Could have been worse, the scales could have been Jigged bone.

As for the guy in Canada, Gus is correct. No animals or humans were injured in the production of the Canadian Knifemakers Guild Show.

Oh one other thing, there is no Gold or Silver in Mokume. Just Bronze or Brass and Nickel.




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Les Robertson
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com

"Nobody throws me my own guns and tells me to run, nobody!
 
HAHAHAHA...thanks for the info. Les. Too funny. I sure am glad you all set me straight. I hate high-maintenance knives!!!

Well, "mokume: can have gold or silver. Check out this site. Another forum member posted it and I had a look. Beautiful stuff I tell ya. I requested a quote on a the flat 6mm ring with no rails, no liner, and no etching, using only 14K yellow gold, 14K red gold, and sterling silver. Guess what...$860!!! Now tell me those aren't precious metals.
wink.gif


-AR

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- AKTI Member ID# A000322

[This message has been edited by Jackyl (edited 04-12-2000).]
 
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