Opinions on Sanvik 13C26 steel

bladeprince · Jul 21, 2006

I know there are differences is steels so I'm talking in general terms here. What I've been able to find out is that the Rockwell hardness of Sandvik 13C26 is 55-57. That puts is in about the same catagory as 440A and AUS-6. I was wondering about anyones experience with this steel compared to the others mentioned. Better? Worse? About the same?

Regards and thanks

wwells20 · Jul 21, 2006

bladeprince said:
I know there are differences is steels so I'm talking in general terms here. What I've been able to find out is that the Rockwell hardness of Sandvik 13C26 is 55-57. That puts is in about the same catagory as 440A and AUS-6. I was wondering about anyones experience with this steel compared to the others mentioned. Better? Worse? About the same?

Regards and thanks

This steel, I think you will find, is really hardened at around 60+.(read 60/61 from Kershaw that is) it is and will be a very underated blade steel. I love the stuff and hope it will be offered in more knives. If you can score some, GO FOR IT!:thumbup: It is my opinion that it is on par with 440C. It seems to be a fine grained steel.

Cliff Stamp · Jul 21, 2006

This is the same steel as AEB-L. It is designed with a specific carbon/chromium ratio so that when austenized it gives high hardness and corrosion resistance with no primary carbides. This maximizes push cutting sharpness and edge retention. 13C26 is a *very* different steel than 440C.

-Cliff

bladeprince · Jul 21, 2006

wwells20 said:
This steel, I think you will find, is really hardened at around 60+.(read 60/61 from Kershaw that is) it is and will be a very underated blade steel. I love the stuff and hope it will be offered in more knives. If you can score some, GO FOR IT!:thumbup: It is my opinion that it is on par with 440C. It seems to be a fine grained steel.

Hmm.....Kershaw's advertisements that use it show 55-57.
http://www.knivesplus.com/kershaw-knife-ke-1475.html

For the prices they charge for their knives that used it, if it was really 60/61, I'm surprised that everybody and his brother doesn't own a few. That's up there with S30V, 154CM, etc. but priced liked 440A/AUS-6. Are you sure about your information?

From what I can gather, 12C27 or, perferably, 12C27mod, is their premium steel for knives and is in the 60/61 hardness range. I have seen several Swedish knives on the web that are made from it but I have yet to find any using 13C26 when they use Sandvik steel.

Regards

Thomas W · Jul 21, 2006

bladeprince, I believe I have mentioned this in another thread, but Kershaw is hardening 13C26 in the 58-59 range.
The web site we have is....well...let's just say we will have a new one up in September. Sorry for the mis-information.

Cliff Stamp · Jul 21, 2006

bladeprince said:
From what I can gather, 12C27 or, perferably, 12C27mod, is their premium steel for knives and is in the 60/61 hardness range. I have seen several Swedish knives on the web that are made from it but I have yet to find any using 13C26 when they use Sandvik steel.

12C27mod, 12C27 and 13C26 are in that order in terms of maximum hardness. 12C27mod is usually ran at 58 HRC in scandinavian knives, with oil/cold it can reach 60 HRC. The scandinavian knives which use 12C27mod don't want or need the very high hardness capable from 13C26 which is why it isn't used. In general, popularity of a steel in general isn't a good indicator of performance.

-Cliff

bladeprince · Jul 22, 2006

Thomas W said:
bladeprince, I believe I have mentioned this in another thread, but Kershaw is hardening 13C26 in the 58-59 range.
The web site we have is....well...let's just say we will have a new one up in September. Sorry for the mis-information.

Are you also saying that advertisments on hundreds of web sites that sell Kershaw knives that use this steel (i.e. Storm & Cyclone) are also incorrect?

I'm not trying to be a jerk. I'm just asking for confirmation. I have a couple of Storms I was going to sell but may keep it the Rockwell rating is higher then advertised.

Thank you

Thomas W · Jul 22, 2006

Are you also saying that advertisments on hundreds of web sites that sell Kershaw knives that use this steel (i.e. Storm & Cyclone) are also incorrect?

If the hundreds of web sites are stating 55-57 hardness, then yes. We have played around with the hardness on 13C26, but it is like Cliff says, 13C26 can get hard, real hard. We like it a lot in the 58-59 range.
It is unfortunate, due to deadlines, that catalogs have to printed in a lot of cases way before final details are agreed upon. There can be changes. This is what happened with our advertised hardness with 13C26. As far as the web site goes...just an oversite. Sorry again. (Note to self; start to be perfect)

I have a couple of Storms I was going to sell but may keep it the Rockwell rating is higher then advertised.

Bladeprince, have you used the Storms you own? How did you find the edge retention?

For the prices they charge for their knives that used it, if it was really 60/61, I'm surprised that everybody and his brother doesn't own a few.

I agree that the USA made Storms, Cyclones, and E.T.'s are in fact great bargins. Hopefully more people will give them a try and see that 13C26 is very underrated.:thumbup:

I'm not trying to be a jerk.

I didn't take it as you were trying to be a jerk. Good questions actually.

bladeprince · Jul 22, 2006

Thomas W said:
(Note to self; start to be perfect).

This was not a reflection on you. This was a corporate mistake (which are made up of people, I know). It may have cost the sale of many knives but who knows. I happen to like the Cyclone but have not bought one because of its place on the Rockwell chart. Again, don't take this the wrong way but I'm surpised that the advertising mistake was brought to your attention by me and apparently Kershaw is not aware of it. Again, please do not take offense. It's not a life changing issue. We're just doing a little chatting.

Thomas W said:
Bladeprince, have you used the Storms you own? How did you find the edge retention?

No, I have not. But I just may keep the smaller one and give it a try. That makes it more comparable to AUS-8, which I think is a good working steel.

Just one more question: Has it always been hardened to 58-59 or did this happen later?

Thank you

Thomas W · Jul 22, 2006

bp, this is actually a bit embarrassing, I have not looked at our web site over the last 6 months or so. The site is out of my realm of responsibilities, that and the fact that I dislike looking at it. As mentioned, we are working on a new site that is due up in Sept. I have had some input on it, and I know it will be so much better that what we currently have. I trust specs will all be accurate as well.

Has it always been hardened to 58-59 or did this happen later?

It is my understanding that we always hardened 13C26 in the 57-59 range.

Cutshaw · Jul 31, 2006

Thomas W - How much corrosion resistance should be expected from the 13C26 in the Cyclone?

Thx

FlaMtnBkr · Jul 31, 2006

Bladeprince

I think you might try studying up on blade and steel properties and how they affect performance. It seems to me that you think rockwell hardness is THE factor in determining a steel's quality.

Hardness is just one of many aspects of a knife's performance. A low RC hardness does not mean an inferior steel.

Not trying to be a jerk.

Temper · Jul 31, 2006

Hardness is just one of many aspects of a knife's performance. A low RC hardness does not mean an inferior steel.

Amen! (789)

Cliff Stamp · Jul 31, 2006

In general saying any steel is directly inferior to another for knife use is problematic. L6 is a superior steel for some knives over M2 and inferior to M2 for others. This misinformation is propogated by way too many makers mainly to promote the new fad steel. Go up to a carpenter and ask them if white pine is a better wood than spruce and they will immediately ask you "For what?". The same is true of steels for knives, it depends on what you want it to do.

-Cliff

Thomas W · Aug 1, 2006

How much corrosion resistance should be expected from the 13C26 in the Cyclone?

I have had a few folks with corrosion issues with 13C26, most of it showing up in the form of small "spots" on the surface. The spots come out quite easy, but corrosion can be a trait of 13C26 that needs to be paid attention to. On the other hand, I have had many 13C26 compliments in concerns with its edge holding, which reminds me, bladeprince have you put that Storm to use yet?

bladeprince · Aug 1, 2006

Thomas W said:
I have had a few folks with corrosion issues with 13C26, most of it showing up in the form of small "spots" on the surface. The spots come out quite easy, but corrosion can be a trait of 13C26 that needs to be paid attention to. On the other hand, I have had many 13C26 compliments in concerns with its edge holding, which reminds me, bladeprince have you put that Storm to use yet?

It took a very nice edge and I've not needed to sharpen it as yet. Although I've only used it for just daily chores so far and not really done any edge "stress" testing as yet.

Thank for asking.

Larrin · Aug 1, 2006

Thomas W said:
I have had a few folks with corrosion issues with 13C26, most of it showing up in the form of small "spots" on the surface. The spots come out quite easy, but corrosion can be a trait of 13C26 that needs to be paid attention to. On the other hand, I have had many 13C26 compliments in concerns with its edge holding, which reminds me, bladeprince have you put that Storm to use yet?

13C26 has more chromium in the matrix than 154CM, S30V, VG-10, etc. Chromium has a much greater effect on corrosion resistance than molybdenum, especially when it comes to rusting, which is why even though Crucible will tell you 154CM and S30V have greater corrosion resistance than 440C, Spyderco finds that 440C has the greatest corrosion resistance of any stainless that they've tested in Q-Fog (outside of H-1 of course), because it has the highest amount of chromium in the matrix of any steel they've tested. Based on the numbers, 13C26 should have excellent corrosion resistance. IMO, If anyone has gotten small spots on 13C26, it's because a stainless steel is just that: stain less.

DGG · Aug 1, 2006

bladeprince said:
I know there are differences is steels so I'm talking in general terms here. What I've been able to find out is that the Rockwell hardness of Sandvik 13C26 is 55-57. That puts is in about the same catagory as 440A and AUS-6. I was wondering about anyones experience with this steel compared to the others mentioned. Better? Worse? About the same?

Regards and thanks

Here is some info that may help. Good comparisons. Sandvik sells it as razor blade steel, 13C26.

http://www2.sandvik.com/sandvik/014...InternetWeb)/FD090E0A4CC0C960C12568FF004F738A

http://www.ajh-knives.com/metals.html

Bark River knives uses Sandvik steels, I think.

http://www.barkriverknives.com/

Their knives are too sharp to be used by the average knife user.

Cliff Stamp · Aug 1, 2006

Larrin said:
13C26 has more chromium in the matrix ...

This depends on the austenizing temperature used. If you note in the above the hardness used of 57/59 is well under the maximum hardness of 13C26 which means it is being either undersoaked or overtempered or not oil quenched or cold treated or a combination of all of the above. These can cause cause less chromium in the ferrite because it will either have never been dissolved or will precipitate out as secondary carbides. They are better off going with 12C27m at that hardness as you will get it with more corrosion resistance, 13C26 which is designed to be ran harder. Do you have the dissolved C/Cr percentages for 154CM, S30V and VG-10 at their normal hardening temperatures?

-Cliff

Daniel Dorn · Aug 1, 2006

A friend at work brought in his new Storm II, and it already had the little rust spots on it. It's a way cool knife, BTW, and for $25 at Wal-Mart, it has to be one of the better deals out there.

Daniel