Opinions requested please

jblyttle

jblyttle

Joined
Sep 3, 2014
Messages
3,741
I cleaned, sharpened and rehung a Plumb boy's head on a new handle with perfect grain alignment. It left here and arrived to the buyer in great shape with no flaws. The buyer reports that after a few minutes of light use the handle broke against the grain and wants a full refund including a shipping refund. I have no evidence to refute his report, but the tool had a new, crack free and perfect handle. Part of me resists the idea that I should hold the bag and eat this. I don't mind allowing a return. I'll lose money and effort (handle cost, shipping etc.) on this which is fine but I feel like I did my part and delivered a good USED tool. Should I be expected to be the only loser here?

I am not fishing for people to tell me that I am right. I think that I am, but if I am not I want to hear it. Thanks.

This is what I delivered.






And this is the pic that I was sent.

 
Yeah, what's with the endgrain there, it doesn't look so good. Do you guarantee your work and materials? If so, then as you said, you should re-do the job, since you said you have no reason to doubt the buyer's story. If he doesn't want to send back the piece, then the guarantee doesn't cover him sending it anyone else for a re-do. Cost of shipping should not be refundable. The big factories don't even cover cost of shipping for warranty work. Why should you? Anyway, all internet transactions have their risks. The only time shipping is refunded is if the seller sent the wrong item or something like that.
 
Who warrants a handle? You break one you break one I thought. It looks like that one may be ash? If so they a not quite as forgiving as hickory but an over strike can break any of them.
 
jblyttle said:
I cleaned, sharpened and rehung a Plumb boy's head on a new handle with perfect grain alignment. It left here and arrived to the buyer in great shape with no flaws. The buyer reports that after a few minutes of light use the handle broke against the grain and wants a full refund including a shipping refund. I have no evidence to refute his report, but the tool had a new, crack free and perfect handle. Part of me resists the idea that I should hold the bag and eat this. I don't mind allowing a return. I'll lose money and effort (handle cost, shipping etc.) on this which is fine but I feel like I did my part and delivered a good USED tool. Should I be expected to be the only loser here?

I am not fishing for people to tell me that I am right. I think that I am, but if I am not I want to hear it. Thanks.

This is what I delivered.






And this is the pic that I was sent.

Click to expand...

Send the cost and the shipping back. Life is too short. You don't want to have all that hassle and have to explain on eBay what happened. I love Plumbs. Email me a price plus shipping.
 
I would not refund his shipping. I would offer to re hang the axe for him, free of charge. I would gladly give him a refund if that is what he chooses.
 
GrReaper said:
Yeah, what's with the endgrain there, it doesn't look so good. Do you guarantee your work and materials? If so, then as you said, you should re-do the job, since you said you have no reason to doubt the buyer's story. If he doesn't want to send back the piece, then the guarantee doesn't cover him sending it anyone else for a re-do. Cost of shipping should not be refundable. The big factories don't even cover cost of shipping for warranty work. Why should you? Anyway, all internet transactions have their risks. The only time shipping is refunded is if the seller sent the wrong item or something like that.
Click to expand...

Could you clarify what you are referring to as far as problem endgrain?

As for the rest of you, I am tending to agree. I don't offer returns except if the item is defective or misrepresented, but it isn't worth the fight or negative feedback that would be sure to follow. I'm just trying to figure out what is right. The product arrived in good shape.
 
garry3 said:
Who warrants a handle? You break one you break one I thought. It looks like that one may be ash? If so they a not quite as forgiving as hickory but an over strike can break any of them.
Click to expand...

I have hung a few on ash lately, but I consider that to be at least %90 as good. This one was in fact an new hickory handle.
 
I hate to give in when I'm right. A lawyer friend, however, once asked me, "Can you afford to be right?" Like you say, you are right, but it's not worth the hassle or the negative feedback. Cost of doing business.
 
Bummer! Good of you to call our attention to this misfortune because it gives us something to learn from.
From what I can see that piece of wood was #1 select but you do have to realize there can be circumstances beyond your control whereby the sawlog tree struck the ground (or a rock or fell over another tree) rather hard or twisted severely which invisibly weakened the wood bonds. I think the term for this is 'shake'. The physical break looks to be the result of tugging upwards overly hard on a stuck blade but the handle shouldn't have 'let go' this early on in the game. Something else to consider: esteemed forum member Hickery Holler quinton clearly demonstrated that air dried hickory doesn't break cleanly whereas improper kiln dried, which can become brittle, does. What was the origin of that piece of wood?

In this particular case you bite the bullet and apologize and be thankful to get that lovely axe head back.

It is noteworthy that vintage Plumb handles were stamped or labelled with the words "tested" and perhaps this is something you (and all of us!) ought to consider doing before releasing any new hangs. Bury the blade in a stump and pull hard in all directions before final setting/trimming of the wedge and before 'signing off' on the job. Dem's the breaks, but better that they happen at home!
 
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With the auction site you are just going to loose as a seller. Even if you eat shipping and offer a full refund the buyer can still leave negative feed back and good luck getting it removed. The bottom line is there are some of them that want a refund and to keep the product. Been there and done that. It's the reason I would never do business outside of the USA.
 
You got a bad stick of hickory. Ask him to cut it off and send it back for a full refund of his original costs (he pays shipping back but original shipping is refunded). Then re-hang it and sell it again.

Ask yourself, what would Gransfors do? Whay would Council do?
 
300Six said:
Bummer! Good of you to call our attention to this misfortune because it gives us something to learn from.
From what I can see that piece of wood was #1 select but you do have to realize there can be circumstances beyond your control whereby the sawlog tree struck the ground (or a rock or fell over another tree) rather hard or twisted severely which invisibly weakened the wood bonds. I think the term for this is 'shake'. The physical break looks to be the result of tugging upwards overly hard on a stuck blade but the handle shouldn't have 'let go' this early on in the game. Something else to consider: esteemed forum member Hickery Holler Clinton clearly demonstrated that air dried hickory doesn't break cleanly whereas improper kiln dried, which can become brittle, does. What was the origin of that piece of wood?

In this particular case you bite the bullet and apologize and be thankful to get that lovely axe head back.

It is noteworthy that vintage Plumb handles were stamped or labelled with the words "tested" and perhaps this is something you (and all of us!) ought to consider doing before releasing any new hangs. Bury the blade in a stump and pull hard in all directions before final setting/trimming of the wedge and before 'signing off' on the job. Dem's the breaks, but better that they happen at home!
Click to expand...

That's it..the Russians sabotaged the handle!:)
 
Square_peg said:
You got a bad stick of hickory. Ask him to cut it off and send it back for a full refund of his original costs (he pays shipping back but original shipping is refunded). Then re-hang it and sell it again.

Ask yourself, what would Gransfors do? Whay would Council do?
Click to expand...

Yeah. I'm not selling new tools but this is the right answer.
 
jblyttle said:
Yeah. I'm not selling new tools but this is the right answer.
Click to expand...

Perhaps this question is a mite personal but I'm of the opinion that an axe head, inexpensively obtained (which is what you're good at) is worth more (for the amount of time and effort involved) 'as is but cleaned up' than is a 'value-added' effort at trying to sell an expertly and thoroughly refurbished tool. Did the buyer merely want a ready-to-use axe or did he/she want a genuine and vintage Plumb head that was in nice shape?
 
300Six said:
Bummer! Good of you to call our attention to this misfortune because it gives us something to learn from.
From what I can see that piece of wood was #1 select but you do have to realize there can be circumstances beyond your control whereby the sawlog tree struck the ground (or a rock or fell over another tree) rather hard or twisted severely which invisibly weakened the wood bonds. I think the term for this is 'shake'. The physical break looks to be the result of tugging upwards overly hard on a stuck blade but the handle shouldn't have 'let go' this early on in the game. Something else to consider: esteemed forum member Hickery Holler quinton clearly demonstrated that air dried hickory doesn't break cleanly whereas improper kiln dried, which can become brittle, does. What was the origin of that piece of wood?

In this particular case you bite the bullet and apologize and be thankful to get that lovely axe head back.

It is noteworthy that vintage Plumb handles were stamped or labelled with the words "tested" and perhaps this is something you (and all of us!) ought to consider doing before releasing any new hangs. Bury the blade in a stump and pull hard in all directions before final setting/trimming of the wedge and before 'signing off' on the job. Dem's the breaks, but better that they happen at home!
Click to expand...

No apologies necessary. Thanks, 300!
 
300Six said:
Perhaps this question is a mite personal but I'm of the opinion that an axe head, inexpensively obtained (which is what you're good at) is worth more (for the amount of time and effort involved) 'as is but cleaned up' than is a 'value-added' effort at trying to sell an expertly and thoroughly refurbished tool. Did the buyer merely want a ready-to-use axe or did he/she want a genuine and vintage Plumb head that was in nice shape?
Click to expand...

3/4 of the first, 1/4 of the second.
 
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