Optical Emission Spectroscopy recommendation?

Fixall

Fixall

Brian
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Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
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Alright…. I know this is kind of a weird one, but I’m hoping maybe one of you has had the composition of a knife analyzed and might be able to point me in the direction of a company that could do this for me.

Atlas Testing has decided not to perform the test…. And the few companies I’ve contacted from a Google search aren’t very interested in analyzing a single knife.

Any suggestions?
 
The company that makes this device, which is expensive, leases them out. They have been used by experts on Pawn Stars to analyze metal objects. That's all I know. Sorry not to be able to help.
 
Take a trip to visit 'tattooed freak' in Nova Scotia. Visit Oak Island and drop the knife in the woods. When they find it their archaeometallurgist will analyze it and find the exact composition and that it came from ore mined by Nubian slaves in in Sicely circa 1300BCE. Then the "Blacksmith expert" will determine it was forged by a left-handed Viking in March or 1489 ... maybe April.
Go back a week later and tell them you dropped the knife in the woods while taking the tour and show them a photo of it.

Or, send an email to Larrin and ask him where to get it done.
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
Take a trip to visit 'tattooed freak' in Nova Scotia. Visit Oak Island and drop the knife in the woods. When they find it their archaeometallurgist will analyze it and find the exact composition and that it came from ore mined by Nubian slaves in in Sicely circa 1300BCE. Then the "Blacksmith expert" will determine it was forged by a left-handed Viking in March or 1489 ... maybe April.
Go back a week later and tell them you dropped the knife in the woods while taking the tour and show them a photo of it.

Or, send an email to Larrin and ask him where to get it done.
Click to expand...

Larrin was actually my first stop, lol! That’s where I got the Atlas Testing recommendation. :)
 
Peters can analyze steel and tell you the composition I believe
 
I have considered buying one and offering this service to knifemakers, but I already have too many things to do to add one more.
With the many knifemakers who do a large business I am surprised there isn't someone who has bought one already.
 
Alpha Knife Supply said:
Metaltest
1205 - 5th Ave. South
Kent, WA 98032

800-200-1376 Toll Free
253-813-5970 Local

Peters Heat Treating does not measure carbon.

Chuck
Click to expand...

Thanks, Chuck. Yea, it looks like Peter’s uses XRF.

I just talked to Metaltest, and they only do destructive testing, and not OES. That might end up being the best option if I can’t find someone to do an OES test though.

I’m going to try the local colleges around here too.
 
I have not used Metaltest in a few years so their processes and tools might have changed. The steel we sent for testing had a small surface burn or arc mark around .250" diameter. Is this what they mean by destructive testing?

There are lots of testing machines around that do not test carbon content. The cost for these machines is approx $17,000. The machines that measure carbon are around $75,000.

If you are testing what I think you are testing, you will want carbon content.

Chuck
 
Alpha Knife Supply said:
I have not used Metaltest in a few years so their processes and tools might have changed. The steel we sent for testing had a small surface burn or arc mark around .250" diameter. Is this what they mean by destructive testing?

There are lots of testing machines around that do not test carbon content. The cost for these machines is approx $17,000. The machines that measure carbon are around $75,000.

If you are testing what I think you are testing, you will want carbon content.

Chuck
Click to expand...

Nah, they meant like destructive destructive, lol. You get a good sized burn mark with OES, so that’s what I thought they meant too. I asked them to clarify and they said they don’t do that type of testing and would have to completely destroy the knife.

The steel I need tested is supposed to be K890. I don’t think there are any other lighter elements in the steel, other than carbon…. So my thinking right now is that XRF should be good enough to distinguish if the steel is, or isn’t K890, if not the exact steel.

I have a feeling Peter’s won’t be too interested in testing this particular knife though. 😂
 
Brad at Peters' offered to test one of the Norris Damascus San Mai steel bars I have, there is a question on whether the core of the San Mai is 420V or 440V, Mike Norris said it could be either.

I would contact them and ask.
 
navman said:
Brad at Peters' offered to test one of the Norris Damascus San Mai steel bars I have, there is a question on whether the core of the San Mai is 420V or 440V, Mike Norris said it could be either.

I would contact them and ask.
Click to expand...
I’m not sure, but there are clues in this thread that suggest that Brad is not a fan of the brand needing testing.

Hoss
 
There is a big difference between someone doing an analysis that produces a reasonably accurate measurement, and the procedures and protocols, chain of custody issues etc. that come into play if the result could affect someone's reputation and potentially face a legal challenge.

It's like finding drugs in an athlete's urine. Anyone with GC/MS can do the analysis, but the official procedures are very involved and only certain labs are certified to do it.
 
Richard338 said:
There is a big difference between someone doing an analysis that produces a reasonably accurate measurement, and the procedures and protocols, chain of custody issues etc. that come into play if the result could affect someone's reputation and potentially face a legal challenge.

It's like finding drugs in an athlete's urine. Anyone with GC/MS can do the analysis, but the official procedures are very involved and only certain labs are certified to do it.
Click to expand...

Yea, which is part of the reason I would much prefer the more accurate results that OES would give over XRF. Either way, there won’t be anything official about the results. It’s more a personal curiosity. I fully expect the testing to show the steel to be K890, and would be rather shocked if it didn’t.

Right now I’m leaning towards sending the knife to a company to perform an XRF test. I’ll leave that company unnamed since it won’t be an official result, and I’d hate to drag someone into it if it turns into a can of worms.

If the steel isn’t K890 then XRF should be able to show that. If that ended up being the case, I’d share the initial results here on the forum and go from there…. Which would likely involve contacting the knife company to see if they would like to send it out for their own testing.

The company the knife came from claims to have a finishing processes that no one else in the industry uses, so it shouldn’t be too difficult to show that the knife came from their company. And if there was one knife that tested as something other than K890 I would imagine there would many others out there too. With more testing of other knives, it should be easy enough to show that it’s a widespread issue.
 
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